How to treat gill flukes?

[Newsmyrna80]

Interesting... the 4 day incubation period is true for all species of flukes? If so, maybe treating 5-7 days after the first treatment is waiting too long. I wonder how long until the "hatchlings" can lay eggs of their own?

Neobenedenia eggs hatch as stated but other species of flukes such as gyrodactylus (Russian doll flukes) give live births within 1-2 days depending on temp. This is one reason I highly recommend a microscope so you know what you are dealing with for proper medication/treatments. But Prazi works on both.
I thought 5-7 days may be a stretch but given the life cycle of neobenedenia it will still get the oncomiridium (larvae) before they have a change to reproduce. After an egg is hatched the oncomiridium have 36 hrs to find a host or they die. If a host is found they will attach and continue to feed for 19 days which is when they become an adult. They lay eggs and the cycle starts over. This, of course, is all water temp dependent. The cooler the water the longer the cycle takes.
I have all kinds of studies on monogeneans if you are interested. You can also google Dr. Ian Whittington, a leading scientist/researcher in the study of aquaculture monogeanea.

 

[HumbleFish]

Neobenedenia eggs hatch as stated but other species of flukes such as gyrodactylus (Russian doll flukes) give live births within 1-2 days depending on temp. This is one reason I highly recommend a microscope so you know what you are dealing with for proper medication/treatments. But Prazi works on both.
I thought 5-7 days may be a stretch but given the life cycle of neobenedenia it will still get the oncomiridium (larvae) before they have a change to reproduce. After an egg is hatched the oncomiridium have 36 hrs to find a host or they die. If a host is found they will attach and continue to feed for 19 days which is when they become an adult. They lay eggs and the cycle starts over. This, of course, is all water temp dependent. The cooler the water the longer the cycle takes.
I have all kinds of studies on monogeneans if you are interested. You can also google Dr. Ian Whittington, a leading scientist/researcher in the study of aquaculture monogeanea.

Thanks for the good info! Perhaps a 4-5 day second treatment window would be more advisable than a 5-7? What do you think? Just wondering if some are waiting too long before beginning the second treatment, and that is why they are having great difficulty completely knocking flukes out!

The staff here should let you write a sticky on flukes, if you wanted to.

 

[The_Blenny357]

My temps at 79.3° F, is that ok?

 

[The_Blenny357]

How to treat gill flukes?

So heres what ive got on my tests.

DT:
Looks like 8.0 to me.

Buffered RODI:
Cant really tell what this one is but sure doesnt match.

How can i lower the RODI ph?

Ive been testing the RODI with my FW test kit, should i test it with my SW kit instead?

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Thanks for the good info! Perhaps a 4-5 day second treatment window would be more advisable than a 5-7? What do you think? Just wondering if some are waiting too long before beginning the second treatment, and that is why they are having great difficulty completely knocking flukes out!

The staff here should let you write a sticky on flukes, if you wanted to.

I typically don't wait the 5-7 days. Like you said Prazi only stays in the water for 72 hrs. That was also the information I received from the lead tech at Hikari. So I dose every 4-5 days.
I have done a ton of research on flukes basically out of necessity. I could not get a definitive answer as to how long to leave a tank fallow so I set off to educate myself.
If asked to write one I probably would There's just not a lot of scientific information on flukes on aquarist websites like there is for ich.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

So heres what ive got on my tests.

DT: View attachment 262415
Looks like 8.0 to me.

Buffered RODI:View attachment 262416
Cant really tell what this one is but sure doesnt match.

How can i lower the RODI ph?

Ive been testing the RODI with my FW test kit, should i test it with my SW kit instead?

I've lowered it by adding a little vinegar. But there are other ways to lower it. I wouldn't worry about .2. I've read some say that the fish doesn't notice a pH difference while dealing with the osmotic difference.
The only parameter I am worried about is oxygenation. I aerate the water for at least an hour. I've done dips with little to no aeration and the fish does show signs of stress. Whereas when I aerate I've been able to leave a fish in for 15 minutes.
Be sure to watch the fish carefully. I personally would do one at a time. Stand guard with a net or Tupperware to get him out ASAP if he tries to jump out. Then be sure to look in the container for flukes, use a flashlight. I know there are pics on this forum of what they look like after a dip.
The test you pictured is fine.

 

[The_Blenny357]

I've lowered it by adding a little vinegar. But there are other ways to lower it. I wouldn't worry about .2. I've read some say that the fish doesn't notice a pH difference while dealing with the osmotic difference.
The only parameter I am worried about is oxygenation. I aerate the water for at least an hour. I've done dips with little to no aeration and the fish does show signs of stress. Whereas when I aerate I've been able to leave a fish in for 15 minutes.
Be sure to watch the fish carefully. I personally would do one at a time. Stand guard with a net or Tupperware to get him out ASAP if he tries to jump out. Then be sure to look in the container for flukes, use a flashlight. I know there are pics on this forum of what they look like after a dip.
The test you pictured is fine.

Why only 1 at a time? And is it fine to put them back in the DT because no other tanks are available for more stock.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Why only 1 at a time? And is it fine to put them back in the DT because no other tanks are available for more stock.

Look at it this way. You have a house with 3 dogs. All 3 dogs have fleas, ergo, your house has fleas. Does it matter if you take all 3 dogs out of the house at one time to treat them or one at a time to return them to the flea infested house?
Also I don't know how adept you are at FW dips but if something goes south (fish jumping, etc) you only have to contend with one, not 3.
Can you get your hands on a Rubbermaid container to use as a QT?

 

[tylersarah]

Fluke lovers

 

[The_Blenny357]

Look at it this way. You have a house with 3 dogs. All 3 dogs have fleas, ergo, your house has fleas. Does it matter if you take all 3 dogs out of the house at one time to treat them or one at a time to return them to the flea infested house?
Also I don't know how adept you are at FW dips but if something goes south (fish jumping, etc) you only have to contend with one, not 3.
Can you get your hands on a Rubbermaid container to use as a QT?

So should i put the fish in a QT and let my 20 fallow? How long?

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Fluke lovers

:wave:

 

[vitz]

Look at it this way. You have a house with 3 dogs. All 3 dogs have fleas, ergo, your house has fleas. Does it matter if you take all 3 dogs out of the house at one time to treat them or one at a time to return them to the flea infested house?
Also I don't know how adept you are at FW dips but if something goes south (fish jumping, etc) you only have to contend with one, not 3.
Can you get your hands on a Rubbermaid container to use as a QT?

imo that's faulty logic-of course it matters, regardless if it's fleas, flukes, or crypto, heh :

look at it this way as well-the more fleas present on the dogs, the more fleas you also have in the house, the more baby fleas will be produced per time. the longer each dog remains w/ fleas, the longer each dog will suffer the results of having fleas"¦

let's say each dog has 100 adult fleas reproducing on it, and there are also 100 adult fleas in the carpets, etc reproducing"¦

if you dip one dog, and return it to the house, it's being put back into a place w/ 300 adult fleas that are reproducing, and the other two are still dealing w/the effects of fleas on their bodies, and those fleas are still reproducing, helping to increase the overall amount of fleas in the system! ...

if you dip all 3 at once, they each go back to an environment w/ only 100 adult fleas reproducing...

which scenario leaves a greater chance of all of the dogs getting re-infested with the largest number of fleas ?

remember, a good deal of preventing re-infection of any inhabitant of a 'closed system' is dependent upon the reducing of the total number of parasites/ pathogens present OVERALL at any given time in the system-the greater the concentration of parasites, the easier it will be for some of them to find a new/old host to infect/re-infect. again, it's a simple numbers game-it's far more difficult for 5 flukes to find a new host than it is for 50

if dipping gives you the willies, fine-then at least please treat ALL of your fish w/prazi at the same time, or at least within a few hrs of each other-you up the odds of being successful at eradicating the pests in as short a time as possible considerably-it's simple math, and 'strength (or weakness) in numbers'.

-for your consideration.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

So should i put the fish in a QT and let my 20 fallow? How long?

I would but I know some have dosed Prazi directly into main. I personally haven't done that. 3-4 weeks fallow.

 

[The_Blenny357]

I would but I know some have dosed Prazi directly into main. I personally haven't done that. 3-4 weeks fallow.

Ive been dosing in the main.

 

[The_Blenny357]

Can i just keep dosing prazi into the main and doing FW dips every 3 days? Will that eventually kill the flukes? Also when i do my FW dip today i will try and get some of the flukes and put them under the microscope and post a pic so you guys can decifer what type it is.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Can i just keep dosing prazi into the main and doing FW dips every 3 days? Will that eventually kill the flukes? Also when i do my FW dip today i will try and get some of the flukes and put them under the microscope and post a pic so you guys can decifer what type it is.

If you are dosing the main with Prazi I wouldn't do dips in conjunction as a treatment, but that's just me. How long have you had Prazi in the tank? If less than 3 weeks I would give it a chance to work. I'm not saying Prazi is perfect. There are quite a few people that have had to use other alternatives to eradicate flukes, me included. But six weeks ago I brought home a royal gramma. I dipped him and he was loaded with neobenedenia...egg layer. I did TT while dosing Prazi. After TT I did another round of Prazi. He's fluke free, confirmed by FW dips. So it can/does work.
My advice is to try the Prazi first. If it doesn't work try another treatment.

 

[The_Blenny357]

If you are dosing the main with Prazi I wouldn't do dips in conjunction as a treatment, but that's just me. How long have you had Prazi in the tank? If less than 3 weeks I would give it a chance to work. I'm not saying Prazi is perfect. There are quite a few people that have had to use other alternatives to eradicate flukes, me included. But six weeks ago I brought home a royal gramma. I dipped him and he was loaded with neobenedenia...egg layer. I did TT while dosing Prazi. After TT I did another round of Prazi. He's fluke free, confirmed by FW dips. So it can/does work.
My advice is to try the Prazi first. If it doesn't work try another treatment.

Ive dosed prazi twice in 10 days, so should i wait for 10 more days and then do a FW dip?

Whats TT? What other treatments work against flukes?

 

[The_Blenny357]

Also i have a question, can flukes live in the media? If so then my newly setup 3g probably has some in it.

(i have a small black clown goby in there but he is super healthy)

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Do not wait 10 days. I would dose every 4-5 days and do water changes before you redose. TT is tank transfer which is used for ich. Yes flukes/eggs can live in the media. They're are quite a few treatments for flukes. Formalin dips, FW dips, levamisole to name a few.

 

[The_Blenny357]

Do not wait 10 days. I would dose every 4-5 days and do water changes before you redose. TT is tank transfer which is used for ich. Yes flukes/eggs can live in the media. They're are quite a few treatments for flukes. Formalin dips, FW dips, levamisole to name a few.

How much of a wc? I was thinking 3g