Hyposalinity Treatment Log

M

mess7777

New member
Hi folks,

I had a small outbreak of ich due to ignorance and not having a QT tank right from the start. I tried the so called miracle cures of garlic and anti parasite food. The spots would go away for a day or two, sometimes appear in different places, but none the less never "went away". Since I was doing a reaquascape, i had the opportunity to easily get the fish out of the DT and decided I would set up a QT.

I ended up picking up a 42g tank to use as a QT. Of course it's real first course of business is to be a hospital tank.

I wanted to share my experience so to help others that are deciding on this route. I filled the tank approx 2/3 with tank water to get started. I am obviously unprepared so I did not have a seeded sponge. Over the last couple days I added fresh water to bring the salinity slowly from 1.025 to 1.022 last night. Today I did a water change of about 5 gallons and replaced with fresh water. Salinity as of tonight is 1.017.

Tonight I prepared some baking soda by baking it in the oven. I have read that mixing this in with some new water and adding it a teaspoon at a time can help to safely raise ph should it drop. I haven't tested ph yet but will start tomorrow.

As i do not have a fully functional biological filter I have placed a few pieces of live rock 1st for shelter and 2nd for filtration. I will start to remove this as the sponge filter gets to work.

I have being dosing prime as ammonia levels show above 0.

So far all 5 fish are eating extremely well , actually looking fatter than they did in the DT. I last was able to identify white spots yesterday night. Today I cannot find any, so I may be well on my way.

Of note : I am considering changing from a HOB filter to a small sponge filter, mostly because i don't like the noise of the water pouring out of the HOB filter.(It is in my bedroom).

I am extremely worried about screwing it up, and doing it all for nothing, but I also cannot bring myself to watch the fish slowly waste away hoping for it to get better.

To anyone interested in reading the trials and tribulations of a rookie aquarist going through a hypo-salinity treatment feel free to tag along. Trust me, if I can do this so can you.
 
Did a quick water change of 2-3 gallons this morning. Salinity down to 1.016 now. Everyone ate like a pig this morning.

Need to get a quiter filter. The aquaclear waterfall was way too loud and couldn't sleep. I ended up unplugging it for the night, won't be able to do that for long.

Anyone have advice on a super quiet air pump to use with a sponge filter?
 
Another water change when getting home, and then another a couple hours later. Salinity is now at 1.012. I did have a pH drop but in the last water change added some baking soda dissolved in water and seems to have kept it around 8.0. It sure doesn't take much.

I dissolved 1 tbsp of baking soda in a baby tupperware container. In each bucket of water I added 1 tsp of this solution. Then when it looked a little low I added 2 more tsp to the tank.

Everyone ate well again tonight, however my sailfin seems to be having a depth perception issue and continuously misses the food it tries to eat. This maybe because I turned the light on and it was previously dark in the room. I hope this is temporary.
 
04/28/11

Sailfin is good as new this morning, must have been blinded by the light. This morning everyone chowed down big time.

No time for a water change, pH sticking around 8.0

Tonight I will bring everyone down to 1.008 and then the countdown begins. No visible signs of ich for the past day so hopefully it stays that way with the lower salinity and I don't have to reset the clocks.

Thought : I will need to work on my mixing skills to have replacement water at 1.008 for water changes. I didn't think of this before, I just thought that once at .008 top off water would keep it there and all is well. Forgot about the water changes!
 
Just an FYI, you won't see ich in low salinity. That's why they never have it in the lfs. It is still there and it seems the only real way of eradicating it is copper and about ) weeks of qt.. Ive tried many different methods that people say work without success. I could be wrong, but these are my observations
 
Phishguy said:
Just an FYI, you won't see ich in low salinity. That's why they never have it in the lfs. It is still there and it seems the only real way of eradicating it is copper and about ) weeks of qt.. Ive tried many different methods that people say work without success. I could be wrong, but these are my observations
Click to expand...

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196

Take a look at that thread and countless others. You don't see the ich because at one point the cysts on the skin fall off as the normal life cycle. The hyposalinity prevents them from going through the complete life cycle, essential ending the infection. I've seen plenty of ich in LFS, even in the short time I have been involved in this hobby. I put mine in QT Saturday. They showed no spots at that time, maybe they dropped off in transfer. Sunday, I saw a few. Monday I couldn't see any. Tuesday I noticed a couple on a different fish from the one on Sunday. Yesteday and this morning, no signs. The treatment starts from the time you get your salinity to 1.008 AND there is no visible disease on the fish.

From what I have read, some LFS keep salinity at 1.015 or in that range, but I don't believe any use 1.01 or less, meaning that the disease lives just fine and will gladly hitch home with you on your fish(as they did in my case!).

As for copper, it is certainly effective, but most hobbyists encourage hypo as it is less stressful. Also, I want to use this tank in the future to QT corals and inverts, so copper is out of the question.
 
I wasn't trying to bash you in any way. I hope I didn't come across that way. Personally I have never seen ich in any of the lfs I go to and was told by a very trust worthy source who works at one of them that they keep the salinity low because the parasites don't show themselves. I've read article after article and post after post about ich too. The problem with doing that as I have found is all the contradicting information leaves me more confused than when started.
Again, I meant no disrespect by my post if you took it that way.
 
Phishguy said:
I wasn't trying to bash you in any way. I hope I didn't come across that way. Personally I have never seen ich in any of the lfs I go to and was told by a very trust worthy source who works at one of them that they keep the salinity low because the parasites don't show themselves. I've read article after article and post after post about ich too. The problem with doing that as I have found is all the contradicting information leaves me more confused than when started.
Again, I meant no disrespect by my post if you took it that way.
Click to expand...

Nah I didn't take it that way. I definitely believe the LFS do this not only because the disease doesn't show but also because it is supposedly less stressful for the fish too.

Guess I will find out if hypo works for me!
 
04/28/11

Did a final water change. Salinity is now sitting right at 1.009. That is good enough, marked me water level and here we go. Tomorrow is day 1.

Fish are looking great, eating like pigs and no visible white spots.

pH holding steady at 8.0, this is much easier than I anticipated. So far I have used approx 1 tbsp of "baked" baking soda. I use tap water though(we have very good water up here, 2 hours up the river and there are whales) so it likely has more ability to hold the pH steady. Please don't turn the discussion into something about RO/DI, this is a decision I have made. You can perhaps get on my case when I start the thread about "hair line algae problem!!". Seriously though, water consistently tests 0 phosphates.
 
04/30/2011 - through day 2, all is well

My Salinity was showing between 1.009 and 1.010, I felt a little too close for comfort, some evaporation and I could easily go over 1.010. I did another small water change to bring it to between 1.008 and 1.009. This feels better.

This small change dropped the pH so over the last two days I had to use a few more teaspoons of the baking soda mixture. Up to now I have used 2 tbsp of baking soda to maintain pH, not very much at all.

Since my biological filter is not yet functioning, I am dosing at least once daily with Prime. This works great, and is likely the difference between success to date and dead fish. I don't think I would want to be in this spot without some sort of ammonia and nitrite detoxification to dose.

Outside this, the process to date has been painless. The fish are extremely voracious, eating like absolute pigs. The tang fights are still ongoing, couple fin nips here and there, but they have mostly mapped out whose flower pot is whose and things slowly settle down.

My DT is getting a fair amount of hair algae in only a week, man I would so love to get those tangs back in there to take care of it! 7-8 more weeks to go!
 
are you changing your filter media everyday? your suppose to with a hypo setup

Now---the procedure.
Catch your fish, put him [them] in the hospital tank at regular salinity, and, over 48 hours, slowly lower the salinity in the hospital tank to 1.009. Draw a 'fill line' on your glass, and keep it exactly that. No rise and fall---that favors the parasite surviving. Keep the pressure unremittingly on the parasite, no letup. You should see happier fish soon, return of appetite, etc.

Observe your fish daily, and when you have seen the last ich gone from the fish [remember to change that filter medium daily!] and it's breathing well [no ich in the gills] then you start a 4-week countdown. That's one full month of continued hypo counting FROM THE LAST OBSERVED CYST.

Keep changing that filter medium daily.

At the end of the 4 weeks, over 48 hours, or by topoff with salt water, bring the salinity up to standard-normal. AND WATCH THE OXYGENATION. The fish may have depleted the oxygen during the hypo period, when the water holds more oxygen. As you add salt, the ability of the water to carry oxygen drops proportionately, so energetic oxygenation of the water is very, very important now. Watch the fish for another 7 days to be sure you got it all---and if he remains ich-free, he can go back in.
Click to expand...
 
I am using an HOB filter that is cleaned at least once per day but no I am not replacing filter media daily. The write up you refer to is the only one I have seen suggesting to do that, there are many more throughout that advocate using a sponge filter or something similar. I believe the author recommends that as another extra precaution, and is probably a good idea, however I am not following this advice exactly. The concept behind changing daily is discarding any disease that has gotten trapped by the filter. I am relying on hyposalinity to do it's job. If it works as advertised, the ich cannot complete it's reproductive cycle and will there not resurface, resulting in a tank and fish free of ich.

There is a user called leebca on another similar forum who seems to be involved extensively in hyposalinity methods. This is the method I have chosen to go with after reading a lot of information. If anyone wants to chime in on why I am doing myself a horrible disservice feel free. I am not trying to contradict any criticism, but simply trying to stay the course with the method I am using.
 
Hmmm...this morning I noticed white "blotches" on two seperate fish fins. This is not the telltale white spot that is round but less uniform. I haven't been able to find any info about this being a disease, maybe it is markings from the little fights they have been having for territory. I will be keeping an extremely close eye on this, everyone is eating like champs and active.....but if I end up with another disease I may need to rethink my treatment plan.
 
05/01/2011

Sure enough, another spot is on the sailfin's tail. Back to start, at least I was only 2 days in. Hopefully they will drop off quickly.
 
05/03/2011 - no detectable spots this morning.

I learned my lesson and got my live rock the heck of the QT. I added a bunch of PVC, some elbows and Y's for them to hide in. This is keeping the peace very well.

I am leaving on vacation in a week and was a bit worried about salinity levels going up quickly form evaporation. It seems a 40g is advantageous because it will take a lot of evaporation to make a difference. I left it for over 30 hours and it maybe changed .0005. I am keeping it at 1.008 so no worries if my fill in only can make it over one time per day.

pH is not an issue, I don't find it dropping anymore. Holding steady around 8.2.

Fish are all still eating very well, the tangs literally destroy the nori I put in every 2nd day. Everyone has fat bellies and seems to be enjoying life.

I am still dosing with prime at least once per day to keep ammonia levels in check. The filter is not holding it's own at all, and removing the live rock likely made the ammonia situation worse.

All in all, I am finding this treatment much easier than anticipated.
 
Feeling STUPID

Feeling STUPID

I may have killed my fish.

Taking out the live rock obliterated my biological filtration, and ammonia levels seem to be a big issue now. i have been dosing with Prime up to twice a day, but tonight one of my yellows has red coloration by it's fin and is extremely lethargic. I did a 25-30% water change and dosed again with Prime......man I don't want to lose my fish.

I shouldn't have panicked at the ich resurface and removed the live rock. Every thread I read says to leave it out though, so it must be possible to do this without a cycled tank.

Damn it, I am upset. Hope it pulls through but it doesn't look good at all.
 
I was pleasantly surprised to come home and find the yellow tang had recovered from nearly dead to looking almost normal. It was swimming upright, the red marking around the side fins had dissapeared. What a relief to know it has a fighting chance now.

As of this morning it still didn't want to eat anything, but I suspect a day or two and it will regain the energy and desire to eat again.

It still it a different shade of yellow from it's counterpart, but compared to the morning I will take it!

Outside of that, I was a little worried about my water change as it was done in emergency mode. I did raise the salinity to 1.009 but that's ok. pH is still remaining consistent, baking soda works like a charm. All other fish look great, eating vigorously.

The real test will be next week when I go on vacation and they will only be checked once a day.
 
05/09/2011 - 2 weeks in the QT, my cycle is starting to establish so the spikes are not as bad, I'll have to start watching nitrites now.

I am having no trouble keeping the salinity below 1.010, it is always at 1.009 or a little lower.

Each day I remove 1 pitcher(3-4 cups) saltwater to use in rinsing my sponge filter. I replace this with fresh water. It slightly lowers salinity, but I can hardly detect it on the refractometer. When I do water changes I put in 1.010 water and this keeps it from going too low.

Although others have advised otherwise, I continue to use Seachem alpha to keep the ammonia and nitrates under control while the cycle establishes. After nearly losing a yellow last week, I prefer to have some bound ammonia rather than dead fish. I am down to dosing once a day instead of twice as the bacteria seem to be catching up and doing their job more and more each day.

pH continues to not be a problem, I have only used about 2 tbsp of baking soda so far. I am almost at 1 week ich free fish, so about 3 to go until I can start raising the salinity and 6 weeks from returning them to the DT!! I can't wait to let them lose on the hair algae that is growing!
 
You could just use Amquel +. It shouldn't be an issue to use it while using hypo.

detoxifies all forms of ammonia/ammonium/nitrites/nitrates from the water,
Click to expand...
Also, I'm 95% sure that once you get the sg that low it's a different bacteria that processes and completes the nitrogen cycle. Not the marine version.
 
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