I believe I have an Ich outbreak...quite shocked!!

Melafix is worthless...don't even bother with it. Prazipro treats flukes and other helminths, so it's not going to address the problem. Chloroquine phosphate is what I would use, since it treats crypto, velvet, brook and uronema. Unfortunately, it is not easy to come by. Copper is an option, but it only treats crypto and velvet. Not sure you are dealing with either. Hopefully snorvich will chime in.
 
From the picture, it seems to me to be either brook (or uronema but the treatment is identical) or velvet. If it were ich (picture is not crisp enough), the discoloration would look like salt (although the actual parasite is under the skin). If there is any peeling skin, it is brook. If there is an overall sheen, it is velvet. For velvet, the preferred treatment as Chris indicates is chloroquine phosphate. The trick is getting pure enough (with out fillers) chemical. I suggest a scrip from a vet to a chemist or pharmacist that does combinations. No lights, no UV, 4 weeks.
 
I contacted Ed at the link Frank gave me. He can get it to me probably by Tuesday. My vet is definitely not the type to help me out on this one. Do you think the stuff Ed has will be "pure" enough??

What is the general consensus on dosing all of the other fish as well?? None are showing any of this. I checked them all out pretty closely. Both the clowns seem to have it, very difficult to see on the male but I caught a glimpse of it. They are now in their own QT setup. I looked very closely at the other fish in the separate QT tub, hard to tell on the Choati's as they are spotted, same with the scooter blennie but they looked vibrant and healthy, all eating like pigs...so are the clowns for that matter.

My gut says hold off on treating the other fish and just stick with the tank transfer method all over again for two weeks from today. If everyone looks healthy and good they will go into the QT reef tank for the duration of the 12 week stint. The clowns will be treated in their own 5g buckets with the stuff I get from Ed until they are clear and look healthy and vibrant for at least two weeks. Then I will determine if I will throw them into the QT reef tank to join the rest. Thoughts??
 
Tank transfer will work only with cryptocaryon irritans. While it is virtually fool proof, it will not fix any of the other parasites I mentioned. If other fish have been in the same water as a fish with brook, uronema, or velvet, they are susceptible. I cannot vouch for the purity of the CP from Chris's link, but getting CP is definitely not trivial so I would go for it. Remember, no lights, UV, carbon, skimming.
 
Well, I'm getting enough CP to treat both, I suppose it makes the most sense. I hope the Choati's are okay with the CP, it seems to be really easy on the fish from all that I have read so I am feeling confident. They have done marvelously in the tank transfer stuff over the past 3 weeks. They are little troopers!! Ed suggested 3 months worth of treatment just to be super safe, 2 months at least. Maybe the best course of action is transferring the main group of fish into QT reef tank and dosing CP in that tank for the next two-three months just to be safe. I'll dose the clowns in their own separate QT for the next 2-3 months and hope everyone is safe and happy after all of this. By that time the DT will have been fallow for close to 16 weeks if I do the 3 month treatment and they can all be slowly added back into the DT. I'll continue the tank transfer method over the course of time it takes me to transfer the whole group into the QT reef tank and be dosing the CP in the small QT tubs as well.
One question, can AmmoLock be used in conjunction with the CP?

Ugggg, what a whole bunch of work this has been and will continue to be. Its good experience though :).
 
I have no idea about the DT. What's the protocol for the DT if velvet was in it? It's a full blown reef and quite lovely.
 
Depending on what she has, 12 weeks would be the maximum fallow period (assumes ich), for velvet or brook, 6 weeks would be required.
 
I'll hit both of those milestone marks and then some. It's interesting not having any fish in my main display. I find it both serene and somewhat disturbing. I am getting use to it and have found myself commenting that I kind of like it without fish. Then the next time I am lamenting about how boring it looks without all the movement and life the fish bring to it.

After reading all about CP I have some concerns regarding my Choati wrasses. It seems there is some anecdotal record of melanarus wrasses and a few other wrasse types doing quite poorly with CP. Any thoughts??
 
What about formalin..it may be easier to get then chloraquine. There are a few pruducts that are watered down formalin such as ich-x that will do the trick-Kieth
 
slojmn said:
I'll hit both of those milestone marks and then some. It's interesting not having any fish in my main display. I find it both serene and somewhat disturbing. I am getting use to it and have found myself commenting that I kind of like it without fish. Then the next time I am lamenting about how boring it looks without all the movement and life the fish bring to it.

After reading all about CP I have some concerns regarding my Choati wrasses. It seems there is some anecdotal record of melanarus wrasses and a few other wrasse types doing quite poorly with CP. Any thoughts??
Click to expand...

I can't speak for other wrasse genera, but I have had poor outcomes with Paracheilinus spp. (flasher) wrasses. Because of that, I won't treat them with CP, and likely won't treat Cirrhilabrus or Halichoeres spp. wrasses with CP either (both are planned additions to my DT at some point). I'll use copper or TTM if need.

I do know that Elliot over in the CP thread has treated leopard and tamarin wrasses with success. Might be worth posting your question in that thread to get his take.
 
I can't help but to pay close attention to this thread. The end of last year I introduced flukes via snails, lost some fish, saved my Muelleri and clown pair. Later in qt the female clown attacked the male who died several days later from his injuries. I attempted to add a new male into the female's qt, he brought velvet into the mix, although he didn't show signs for 2-3 weeks and the female showed symptoms first. I used cholorquine for 10 days w/fw dips (fw dips are essential for velvet relief!) and I questioned the effectiveness of the cp, so I switched to copper and after a round of septicema (cured by feeding erythromycin in frozen food for a few days) the female, who I've had 10 years has been fully recovered and thriving for many months. The moral of my story is if you think it's velvet, look for a pinched appearance, a powdery sheen, and no skin peeling, then I would opt for Copper w/fw dips. It's quite possible that ich and velvet were introduced into your tank.

After everything was "back to normal" I realized the silicone in my tank was giving way, so I had to tear it all down...onto the next tank.... Good luck!
 
Deinonych said:
I can't speak for other wrasse genera, but I have had poor outcomes with Paracheilinus spp. (flasher) wrasses. Because of that, I won't treat them with CP, and likely won't treat Cirrhilabrus or Halichoeres spp. wrasses with CP either (both are planned additions to my DT at some point). I'll use copper or TTM if need.

I do know that Elliot over in the CP thread has treated leopard and tamarin wrasses with success. Might be worth posting your question in that thread to get his take.
Click to expand...

The problem is that Choati are not "normal" leopard wrasses. It will be a guess pure and simple.
 
Kieth71 said:
What about formalin..it may be easier to get then chloraquine. There are a few pruducts that are watered down formalin such as ich-x that will do the trick-Kieth
Click to expand...

I was able to get the CP quite easily and it will be here tomorrow.

tylersarah said:
I can't help but to pay close attention to this thread. The end of last year I introduced flukes via snails, lost some fish, saved my Muelleri and clown pair. Later in qt the female clown attacked the male who died several days later from his injuries. I attempted to add a new male into the female's qt, he brought velvet into the mix, although he didn't show signs for 2-3 weeks and the female showed symptoms first. I used cholorquine for 10 days w/fw dips (fw dips are essential for velvet relief!) and I questioned the effectiveness of the cp, so I switched to copper and after a round of septicema (cured by feeding erythromycin in frozen food for a few days) the female, who I've had 10 years has been fully recovered and thriving for many months. The moral of my story is if you think it's velvet, look for a pinched appearance, a powdery sheen, and no skin peeling, then I would opt for Copper w/fw dips. It's quite possible that ich and velvet were introduced into your tank.
Click to expand...

Interesting comments on the re-occurrence of velvet. I discussed with Ed over at KM, where I got the CP, the best course of action for treatment and he said to treat for 3 months as he has heard that velvet reoccurs without lengthy treatment. He made it sound like the 3 months treatment has been successful for him.

snorvich said:
The problem is that Choati are not "normal" leopard wrasses. It will be a guess pure and simple.
Click to expand...

At this point I have decided to not treat the other fish in QT. They are all super healthy and will be living in a QT tank for a few more months, plenty of time to assess them. If they have any problems I will know it and can treat then. I feel in my gut and from watching them closely for all of this time during the tank transfers that they are all very healthy, robust, and show great color. There is absolutely no sign of any problems so I don't want to subject them to any treatment. I'll watch them for the next 3 months and we shall see how it goes.

The clowns do not like their new home at all. They are pretty skittish which was not the case in the tub. I hope they get accustom to it. They are eating great and look the same, no worse-no better. I will be treating them with the CP come Wednesday morning, my next tank transfer.

Would it be okay to stretch the tank transfers to 4-5 days as long as the AmmoLock keeps ammonia at 0? Would it be better to just do large water changes so I don't have to catch them over and over anymore since tank transfer is not really the goal anymore?
 
When you are moving the fish to eliminate the possibly of ich, you need to keep with the schedule. Once ich-prevention no longer is the objective, I would keep the clowns in the same container and just perform water changes to manage ammonia.
 
"I discussed with Ed over at KM, where I got the CP, the best course of action for treatment and he said to treat for 3 months as he has heard that velvet reoccurs without lengthy treatment. He made it sound like the 3 months treatment has been successful for him."

I would question 3 months treatment, are you sure he wasn't just trying to sell you more CP? I treated severely infected clowns for velvet with CP for 10 days and since I questioned my CP source I switched to Cupramine for 5 additional weeks. The fish have been free and clear since Dec 15th. Also, I'd like to stress, if you see the fish are having trouble breathing, fw dip them, even 30 secs is better than no dip.
 
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