I can't keep any dwarf angels for some reason.

[Angel*Fish]

The impetus is upon you to back up your claim. YOU claimed that they are notorious for being cyanide caught. Based on what? Also, he made no reference to where his angel was collected so we have no reason to assume that his angel was caught using drugs.

Why is the impetus on me?

It's pretty well known that most of them come from Indonesia and the Philippines. And in those countries juicing is rampant in spite of being illegal which means they are also illegally imported in the US. If you speak to someone who's had success with a bicolor, they will typically say they did nothing special and often may not have even been aware of the poor survival rate of these fish. They just got lucky and got a healthy fish.

 

[Angel*Fish]

Like I said, QT isn't just for medicating. I only have one friend who is very interested in Dwarf Angels but he has 2 QT tanks. The first is for right after the fish arrive and it looks like a normal FOWLR tank. This tank is to get the fish relaxed and eating (FAT). Once the fish is fat, eating prepared food, and can handle treatment he has a hospital tank with only PVC (but the PVC has algae on it) that he ties Nori all over (to simulate live rock to a point). He then treats with Prazi and Hypo before it goes back to the FOWLR QT again for another couple weeks to calm down after treatment. If all is well then the fish can go into the display.

Seems like the system has been working. I am still curious to know if the OP is using the completely unfiltered well water that he spoke about in another thread in this tank. Seems like that would be highly suspect as to the reason he keeps losing fish.

Very nice system, now that's the way to to it :thumbsup:

 

[cherubfish pair]

Op = ?

 

[JamesJR]

Why is the impetus on me?

It's pretty well known that most of them come from Indonesia and the Philippines. And in those countries juicing is rampant in spite of being illegal which means they are also illegally imported in the US. If you speak to someone who's had success with a bicolor, they will typically say they did nothing special and often may not have even been aware of the poor survival rate of these fish. They just got lucky and got a healthy fish.

You can get Bicolor angels from all over the indo-pacific. If they were hardy fish as you say they are then success with them would be a lot more common.

 

[BrianD]

You can get Bicolor angels from all over the indo-pacific. If they were hardy fish as you say they are then success with them would be a lot more common.

James, I am not sure of the reason for the hostility. It has been my understanding for years that the most critical issue in terms of mortality of dwarf angels is collection practices.

 

[SkullV]

Op = ?

OP = you. Still curious about your use of unfiltered 200 TDS well water and if it is employed in the tank where you keep losing dwarf angels.

 

[cherubfish pair]

I used 10 tds culligan water from our health food store on the angels. The 200 tds well water was in a tank I was getting ready for tank raised occys before it started to leak.

 

[SkullV]

I used 10 tds culligan water from our health food store on the angels. The 200 tds well water was in a tank I was getting ready for tank raised occys before it started to leak.

I would test the Culligan water for heavy metals. 10TDS can mean anything, but if they have copper fittings on their machine (human drinking water) or something like that the 10TDS could be something completely harmful to the dwarf angels.

 

[Korrine]

hey Mitch

One of the foundations of our tank is the water we put in. Without good water we don't have anything...if not right away, eventually we run into big/major problems. Have you thought about going ahead and getting a r/o unit? They are also handy around the house b/c you can keep a container of r/o on hand and a container of mixed saltwater on hand. If anything happens with your tanks...which usually does at the worst possible moment...you have it right with you to use. Plus it's easier to do water changes and top offs. You could very well get by with a 3 or 4 stage. I have a 5 stage since my city uses chloramines.

 

[JamesJR]

I am not trying to be hostile here. I just disagree that bicolor angels are hardy and I don't think it is fair to tell someone who just lost one that they are easy. To clarify, If they were hardy then you would see them being kept with the same level of success as other angels coming out of the same region, such as coral beauties. If the collection practices are more or less the same for these easier fish than why do you see so many bicolor angels coming in such poor condition? I am not saying they are impossible but saying they are easy is a real stretch IMO. That is all I am trying to say.

 

[Angel*Fish]

Saying that "I don't think it is fair to tell someone who just lost one that they are easy" is a distortion what I said. I was telling the OP that it was likely not his fault at all.

Fyi, you mainly see them from the Philippines and Indonesia. I think the reason for this is they stay tighter to the rocks than most other Centropyge angels and are more difficult to net. But in a place where chemical collection is the rule rather than the exception, capture is plentiful. That's the reason they're so cheap. Net caught angels are going to be more labor intensive, thus more expensive.

Are they more sensitive than some of the other species? Yes, in that they are a shyer fish (which is why they are harder to catch). A TLC acclimation is the best thing for them. If you check, you'll see I was clear about that when I stated I wouldn't recommend them to beginners.

From the accounts I've heard, if you start with a healthy bicolor and provide it a proper environment this fish seems to do just fine. But no amount of TLC is going to fix cyanide poisoning. Did I overstate their hardiness? I don't think so if you take it within the context of my other post about acclimation and source.

 

[Angel*Fish]

In case it wasn't clear, you would want to avoid any dwarf angels from the Philippines or Indonesia. The conscientious LFS's do their best to avoid angels from these locations.

 

[Sheol]

And that is a true statement. C. bicolor seems to be relatively hardy, once the fish has acclimated. Its that period where they break down. Anyway, QT is ok only if the tank has nice, productive LR in it, for these guys.
Argi or acanthops present problems in a smaller tank, despite their hardiness. They are aggressive. My African flameback stands up to a Lunare wrasse 8 times his size. My C. argi was hyperactive in my former 36 gallon tank, also.
C. bicolor at least seems not as aggressive..
But if I were the OP, I'd wait a couple more months and start with a Coral beauty instead. Just my .02 in here..

Sincerely,
Matthew

 

[cherubfish pair]

Well I've had a fireball angel for 2+ months now and crossing my fingers!

 

[stunreefer]

One thing to note I never saw mentioned is the possibility of flukes. Angels regularly come in with these nasty parasites. A freshwater dip will quickly reveal flukes and immediately alleviate stress caused by flukes, then follow with Prazipro. I've dosed Prazipro into aquariums containing corals with no issues, note that most worm species will be negatively effected.

GL with the new angel :thumbsup:

 

[cherubfish pair]

GL with the new angel :thumbsup:

I'll keep yall posted!