I don't trust my LFS, please advice me:)

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Hi all

May I ask for your thoughts on this please, because I am a very sad noob right now.

I might have a really bad nano-setup, but I have not made any plans without checking that other hobby aquarists have had success with it first.

I thought I was starting fishkeeping, but instead I have become a serial killer of fishes. In the start I made some mistakes that was simply nooby and exclusively happened because I forgot parts of what I had already read.... and my two fishes died.

I bought two new ones from the LFS and left them in his tanks, as mine was still showing a slight ammonia spike from the dead fishes decomposing over night and my emergency/hospital tank is refusing to cycle. So far so good. When I later came to collect my fishes, a bt-anemone had been put into their tank. It was inside the powerhead, clearly completely torn to shreds and long since starting to decay. In the tank nxt to theirs, another anemone had been lifelessly stuck in a powerhead the entire time I left the fishes there (a week or so).

In general this fishseller leaves carcases and huge feeding-chunks of invertebrets, all over his tanks. A skeleton of a dead fish can be seen stuck in the overflow somewhere and there is almost always a yellow tang (corpes of tang) stuck to a specific powerhead in his main coral/frag display where they swim around a corner and get caught...

So, I collect my two clownfishes.
They weren't looking as great as when I had picked them earlier. A little faded in colour, a little tattered, one had slight ich when I bought it, it had become worse as well ofc.

I took them home, drip acclimatised them, put them in the tank, they would not feed, but seemed fine and in the morning they where both dead.

I strongly "feel" that the LFS's dead anemones had something to do with it. I have read that if I take a fish from water with high ammonia and high lvl of nitrates (his water has well over 50, but I have no test that can measure that much), and I put it into water without these toxins, that also produce stress. That all changes should be done slow if possible.

So I ignored it, after testing and retesting my tank and I found nothing that could actually explain the death of my fishes. (I have no test for dissolved oxygen, otherwise use red sea liqiud testkits with backup results from Tetra-tests and JBL for mg/CA, and the fishseller confirm my readings).

I just thought, that since it would do nothing to help the fishes, let it go, and could not imagine myself actually saying a bad word to the man. For whatever reason, the seller starts to indicate that "something must be wrong" with my tank.

Well, perhaps, perhaps not. It could be a different tank, but this one is mine:

The tank is a 60l w. back-filter, no skimmer, no sump, overpowered light rigged for adding an anemone later on and all my parameters are in check (at the time the fishes died they were in check. Right now nothing is in the tank so the pH has risen with 0,2 and I am using the chance to check stability at lower levels of alk, as I have had it at 12ppm so far).
My only plan for this aqua is two clownfishes, a watchman goby for company and an anemone later on. In the meantime I am clearing up my basement to make plans for a bigger community tank of sorts, no plans of corals, besides perhaps some Pachyclavularia to cover up the rocks.

I am completely dependant of this LFS, my country is small, and I have to be able to work with this man. I just do not know how I can navigate through what he tells me and killing fishes honestly makes me feel very bad.

I need to make sure that nothing is wrong with my tank, not just be convinced that it is a deathtrap so I pay the seller (he knows I'm planning on a much bigger aqua) and right now I don't know.

I just need help to focus on the problem and the fishseller speaks to my feelings, not the facts. I don't like when people speak to my feelings, especially when I have just killed something, because that obviously kicks many feelings.

I am so sorry for being so long and panicked, and thank you in advance for your time:)
 
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Sorry to hear about your troubles. Unfortunately those two clowns we're doomed from the start. From your description, they had a disease when you got them. His tanks could have had high ammonia and nitrite levels, which can cause organ damage and stress. Dead anemones are said to release stoninging organelles of some kind into the water which can find its way into the fishes tissue. So this was the perfect storm. Sorry.

This LFS sounds like a nightmare. I'd avoid it at all costs. Can't you get to a city nearby and find a well run store? If you absolutely must deal with this man, I'd insist on picking up the fish THE HOUR they arrive at his store and take them home in the bag - before they end up in his tanks. Before you do this - there are several things to know so be sure to ask here for some pointers. There is still a risk buying fish this way but I think it will be less of a risk than buying from your only LFS.

By the way, 60L is considered tight quarters for a pair of clowns. Personally, I'd look into other fish to keep in that tank. Good luck to you - with a little effort you will be able to build a successful tank!
 
If you don't mind, can you tell us where in the world you are?

I'm not a big fan of LFS anyway. 12 years in the hobby and at this point I only see the inside of an LFS (we have 5 or 6 in the area) about once a year and even then I very rarely buy anything. But we have a pretty active local club and of course there is always online sellers.

Good luck in your quest.
 
I would never buy ANY livestock from a store that like that that clearly doesn't take care of their animals.

I would only buy Dry goods in an emergency so that I didn't support them at all.

There are plenty of good online places. You have to deal with shipping, but most people have good luck when ordering from reputable places.
 
It sounds like the LFS is a nightmare and that your in a tough spot for a LFS. If ordering online is not an option then, I would only get fish from the guy when he receives the fish and before they are removed from the shipping bags. I would not purchase anything that has been in contact with the LFS water.
 
It sounds like the LFS is a nightmare and that your in a tough spot for a LFS. If ordering online is not an option then, I would only get fish from the guy when he receives the fish and before they are removed from the shipping bags. I would not purchase anything that has been in contact with the LFS water.

Agree completely. See if there is somewhere you can buy online (check with others in the hobby to see if they are reputable) and buy there, or do as suggested above. I wouldn't even step foot in that LFS. The more you support them, the more fish they will bring in and kill.
 
You'd be better of moving up to a 150l if you want clowns and an anemone. More stability with a larger water volume. And I'd go out and catch my own fish locally before buying any more from that LFS.
 
I hate to be rude but if you knew the fish had ich why would you take them instead of asking for your money back? The store sounds terrible but the dead fish is on you. Buyin sick fish is strikes 1 and 2. Not quarantining them is strike 3.
 
I'd avoid that LFS completely. I know you said your country is small, but you perhaps try to see if there are any other hobbyists in your area who might be willing to sell you livestock that they don't want, or that they have extra of.

If you must buy from that LFS, don't buy anything that looks outwardly unhealthy, regardless of what the owner says. You are the customer and at the end of the day, you get to choose what you buy. You might be able to snag the random "healthy-ish" specimen, but don't line his pockets for his blatantly disingenuous business practices.

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Dear everyone - thank you for that, I read most comments here but then chickened out for fear of negative comments, since I am building everything up from the ground in such a small tank.

I live in Denmark, in the capital, and most apartments here does not have floors that can carry bigger tanks. I want to get all the equipment (and extras, extra heater, extra light, back up generator etc.) while having a small tank, because it is the only way I can prevent a bigger investment from being lost to one disaster or another along the way. This way I can afford a backup generator in the near future, but if I invested in a bigger tank right away - I simply could not get the tank running without potentially losing something with the breakdown of a heater or the light or some silly little economical detail like that.

I now have a healthy small anemone (from a German online firm, excellent people, health livestock) and the two specific clowns I needed the LFS to import for me. I can not risk losing the connection to those specific exporters of local variations of anemonefishes.

The baby fishes are enjoying the fruits of the experience I got previously and the tank seems to be very well for them now. They will enjoy a bigger tank when the become too big for the habitat but right now, all the rocks/hidingplaces/overhangs seem to have the right size for their instincts and the anemone have not moved except to secure it's foot deeper.

The LFS is having a hard time, but for now I will keep stopping by when I need salt or testkits and tell his other customers to leave their Dogs outside the shop as I am still finding DogHair in the macro algae I bought from the shop several months ago :)

Thank you all for guiding me, it helped me to get back on track and the German firm is better stocked than any shop in Denmark anyhow. Except ofc. that they did not have the right type of anemone fish and don't ship fishes to Denmark anyway, so I got everything I wanted and can start taking responsibility for my three pet lifeforms. Next step is the back-up generator and home cultures of live food.

My apologies for not writing back sooner, and thank you for your time :)
 
Germany and a train ride might be your better bet. And I wonder what Oslo might have. Carry a styrofoam container. If you have a lot of blackouts, Penn-Plax makes a bubbler that comes on only in case of a power outage, and that can keep your tank alive as long as you can feed them batteries. You might drop gentle hints on your lfs about maintenance: they need help.
 
If you don't mind, can you tell us where in the world you are?

I'm not a big fan of LFS anyway. 12 years in the hobby and at this point I only see the inside of an LFS (we have 5 or 6 in the area) about once a year and even then I very rarely buy anything. But we have a pretty active local club and of course there is always online sellers.

Good luck in your quest.

Who do you buy from? Online only?
 
Thanks Sk8r, that emergency-bubbler is going directly on the "buy later" list! I get very few power-outs here, but prepare for the problem to come in the future. It is a problem that the PC broke down the 30october and blew the fusebox.. had to call in a repair guy to figure out what was wrong by systematically changing those fuses etc, not something I knew much about besides having a box of extra fuses around... It is just a huge sign that I still don't have proper equipment to keep the pet-habitat completely safe :/

As long as the anemone is not bothered too much by the fishes, I don't need more for this tank. I will just let them grow and perhaps order some green star polyps from the online firm, just to let some Briareum & Pachyclavularia compete for the rest of the space but - then I would pressure the anemone, so it needs time to settle in and become larger now.

I am sad that the shop use nets to lift the fishes out in the air when they sell them - but it seems as if the local customers who comes there for pet-food for cats and dogs, have a lack of respect for the owner. It seems to be becoming a bad spiral of customers disliking the deaths in the trade and disliking him for it and him not caring about him shop anymore because everyone hates him for his efforts anyways.

I must say that I will love that shop forever for introducing me to my favorites fish, even though the conditions of the tanks there really is unsightly. On the good side, he got his aiptasia-anemones after I said his customers would avoid contamination with them.

The local clubs that Ron spoke of, is that how people get their livestock if they totally avoid shops? Sometimes I read people tell about getting their fish straight from the local exporters, but I thought they only ship very big amounst of fishes, I mean bigger amounts than what people can have in their tanks?
 
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