I want the sand secrets...

[layer3switchguy]

Hi guys, what sort of gravel vac are you using? I've seem some that connect to a garden hose or faucet, but don't they need tap water to be powered? If so, how do you prevent the tap water from entering your system?

 

[Agu]

Had one that hooks to a faucet to create the siphon and automatically drains the water into the sink. OK concept if the sink is next to the tank. If you have to run 20' of tubing and go back and forth to set it up and start/stop it,it won't get used. Used mine twice and decided it wasn't worth the hassle.

This is easier and cheaper, siphon clean.

 

[auto151]

I cant keep a diamond goby for over a month and it disapears. I never even see its body, im to the point of thinking there walking out of the tank and leaving me.

 

[Aqua_DHMO_Tech]

auto151,

If you don't think it died in the tank and was consumed, do you own any dogs or cats? I've had two diamond gobies jump on me in the past.. Jumpers around my house are at high risk of predation

 

[helcat17]

im kinda wanting to know more about the florida fighting conch, i have been reading that they are hunters though and will pick the snails off the side of the tank?

 

[kimberlly]

I have 5 Allens Damselfish (not aggressive since they're herbivours) in my 120 reef. They make little caves that they sleep in by swishing sand with their tails. It's just enough to keep sand looking great.

 

[auto151]

No dogs or cats even has a top on it, I have a fish napper.

 

[lolgranny]

Everyone ive spoke with is leave it alone and dont disturb it. Even if its a shallow one. When i put up my 180 i will be doing caribsea special grade 1" of sand and i will not be touching it whatsoever.

 

[Gorgok]

That is a 'ok' policy until something does touch it. Then you are at a high risk of a crash. Fine sand trapping junk and not letting air in makes gas, if for whatever reason that gas does get out some day, like say you bump a powerhead and it blows the sand up a little, then that gas can wipe out the tank. I didn't even have 1" but it was enough to kill every fish i had, minus one clown (very early in tank setup, nothing else in tank). On the plus side i didn't have to figure out what to do with the Damsels once i got other life in the tank =/.

I'm tempted to start adding some finer sand to my gravel because it would look better, as i add more stirring critters, but i am sort of scared of the gas still =/. The tank shape/height/build is stupid so manual sand sifting really isn't happening either.

 

[Agu]

Everyone ive spoke with is leave it alone and dont disturb it. Even if its a shallow one. When i put up my 180 i will be doing caribsea special grade 1" of sand and i will not be touching it whatsoever.

That advice makes the assumption you have a live sand bed or other sand stirrers (sand sifting gobies/starfish , nassarius, etc). With a live sand bed the worms that live in the sand stir it while eating the waste in the sand. Using a gravel vac would remove those critters so cleaning the sand is not advised. Obviously with the stirrers the sand is already being disturbed so cleaning it may or may not be necessary.

With an inert/undisturbed sand bed you can leave it alone but you run the risk that Gorgok mentioned of waste buildup and subsequent pollution of your tank.

 

[Frenzy]

Worms in the sand, nassarious, and a bicolor goatfish.

 

[elegance coral]

Everyone ive spoke with is leave it alone and dont disturb it. Even if its a shallow one. When i put up my 180 i will be doing caribsea special grade 1" of sand and i will not be touching it whatsoever.

Did the people you spoke with describe what happens in a sand bed when you do not disturb it?

 

[lolgranny]

The sand has nass snails and a goby. Im sure their are woms in their, but nothing i "see" ive always been told ss stars arent very good for it because they usually starve and die under the sand. Are u reccomending vaccuming / stirring regularly on a fresh 1" sand bed?B]

That advice makes the assumption you have a live sand bed or other sand stirrers (sand sifting gobies/starfish , nassarius, etc). With a live sand bed the worms that live in the sand stir it while eating the waste in the sand. Using a gravel vac would remove those critters so cleaning the sand is not advised. Obviously with the stirrers the sand is already being disturbed so cleaning it may or may not be necessary.

With an inert/undisturbed sand bed you can leave it alone but you run the risk that Gorgok mentioned of waste buildup and subsequent pollution of your tank.

 

[lolgranny]

Did the people you spoke with describe what happens in a sand bed when you do not disturb it?

Do u speak of a sanded in general or just a ssb? I've asked a bunch of guys what they do with their shallow beds and none of them touch it epically in a dsb so Im curious what u would do in a ssb or a dsb

 

[elegance coral]

Do u speak of a sanded in general or just a ssb? I've asked a bunch of guys what they do with their shallow beds and none of them touch it epically in a dsb so Im curious what u would do in a ssb or a dsb

I do roughly the same thing regardless of how deep the sand is, or if there's sand at all. I clean the critter poo, dead organisms, left over food, coral slime, and any other organic matter (collectively known as detritus) off the bottom of the tank, so it doesn't rot and release nutrients like nitrogen and phosphate into the water. In order to remove this organic matter, before it's nutrients enter the water, the sand must be disturbed. No matter how deep or shallow it is, or how many critters you have living in it.

 

[lolgranny]

I do roughly the same thing regardless of how deep the sand is, or if there's sand at all. I clean the critter poo, dead organisms, left over food, coral slime, and any other organic matter (collectively known as detritus) off the bottom of the tank, so it doesn't rot and release nutrients like nitrogen and phosphate into the water. In order to remove this organic matter, before it's nutrients enter the water, the sand must be disturbed. No matter how deep or shallow it is, or how many critters you have living in it.

By cleaning it do you mean using a vac / stirring? Ive truthfully never been told to do this in a dsb (5"-6") as a dsb is a ecosystem of its own and disturbing it makes having a dsb pointless. With no nass snails/ wrasses / stars (which i have read arent that "good" to have as they starve very easily and should only be 1-200g) / cucumbers your unable to get air to free the gas pockets, but with them there is not much more you need to do to my understanding. Good bacteria forms and takes care of nitrates, disturbing this manually will throw off the system. I agree with cleaning the top (un eaten food, piles of fish poo if you have them, cyano...ect) I dont know if i agree with using a vac / stirring however.

 

[lolgranny]

This might help
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1652103

 

[j.p. harrington]

ve got about a 4-6" sugar fine sandbed in my 75 gallon tank want do it again ive got major flow and its fine now but for the first few months it was a sand storm just about everyday

im just about to upgrade to a 135 cube (3x3x2) and i will be going with a coarser sand as i will be adding even more flow and dont want to have to worry about it blowing around again

 

[miwoodar]

This might help
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1652103

"In all aquariums, decomposition is largely performed by bacteria, but the process can be facilitated by the presence of a "clean up crew", or CUC for short. Detritus (waste) and other organic matter is first eaten by the CUC of crabs, stars, hermits, and snails. The smaller particulates they produce are then further broken down by copepods, other benthic organisms, and worms. The remaining dissolved organics are then converted by the "nitrifying" bacteria, from ammonia (toxic), to nitrite (less toxic), to nitrate (least toxic). All of this takes place within a layer of sand oxygenated by moving water, termed oxic, and the bacteria there require oxygen to function, termed aerobic. In a shallow sand bed this is where the process ends. The nitrate simply accumulates in the water column to be removed by ritual water change."

My N=1, FWIW, I've been a SSB guy for the last decade and I've never detected a meaningful level of nitrate (Edit here, I originally wrote that I've never found any nitrate but I don't have my logs in front of me to I'm backing off from that a bit) in any of my setups no matter how much food I've put in the tank, even when I wasn't carbon dosing. You don't need a DSB to remove nitrate. In addition, my current tank is a 140 and has maybe 75 lbs of rock in it.

I've recently renovated my tank and have started a heavy vacuum regime for cosmetic reasons. I feared an immediate explosion in nitrate levels but still haven't seen anything. I still have no sand CUC and will mostly keep it that way going forward - maybe a watchman but not much more.

Edit to add...AA has presented some good stuff on this topic BTW (more than what I've linked here)....
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/7/aafeature
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/6/aafeature

 

[josephv]

I keep a remote deep sand bed 35 gallons that I never touch. Let nature do its thing. My main tank 300 gallons has a 1--1.5 inch shallow sand bed that i stir constantly. At least every other day. Looks great and it works for me.