I want to start a LFS

[Fretfreak13]

I know this isn't the first time this thread has circled around, and I'm not even sure if this is the correct board to put it in. Modes move it if it should be elsewhere, please and thank you. I will happily take all constructive feedback, but if you just pop in to call me a moron please just save it.

I am currently writing my a rough draft of business plan and would like to launch in 2020. I say rough draft because my husband works for a company that often moves him around in order to advance in the hierarchy. We both have agreed though that in five years, as long as the demographics in the area look promising and there isn't an aquatics store on every corner, that we will stay put and launch the brick and mortar shop. If the area sucks, we'll wait for another move.

I have personally worked in two LFS. The first one I started as a weekend tank scrubber at 17 years old. I was there for three years and in that time worked my way up as the store manager. I was in charge of employees, ordering livestock, ordering dry stock, managing wholesalers, and even opening new accounts when needed. I also had all the headaches of ****ed off customers wanting to "speak with the manager" and being held accountable.

We also had a full maintenece squad where I personally kept all clients records, and even DID the services on four of them. I watched this little store grow from two employees and a tiny storefront, to an expansion that doubled the space with nine employees and two company vehicles. I watched a nine year old set up his first tank, and was probably just as excited as he was. I also watched my boss work way into the night waiting for a fish shipment who's plane was delayed until three am. I even watched him spend the night at the store in the beginning before we had a proper generator when the weather was looking shady, and then open the next day all bright eyed for his customers. Even after all of all of that, I still want to do this.

The other store I worked at basically taught me all the things NOT to do as far as retail goes. Bad location, bad customer relation, bad organization, etc. however, that boss had double the hobby experience of the first and it showed. I learned a lot from him as far as running healthy livestock systems.

By the time 2020 rolls around I will have been in the hobby for 15 years and will be 26 years old. I will have paid of my car loan by then, and will be more than halfway done paying off my student loan. If I bust my *** I could probably have the student loan paid off too. Unfortunately I never finished college and the credits I do have have nothing to do with business so that was a big waste of time and money.

Sorry for the novel, but I feel like at least saying where I'm coming from instead of acting how starry eyed about owning the perfect public fish roo would possibly get me more helpful and less negative responses.

Here are the first of my many questions, and right now most have to do with applying for a loan so bear with me.

I can do one of two things with my student loan. I can double pay on it and have it paid off by the time 2020 rolls around, or I can put that money into savings for opening the store. Either way I will still need to apply for a business loan. Do you think the loan companies would be more interested in seeing that I paid back the loan early (which on their part means they'd be out of the interest payments) or that I have a little bit of money saved to put towards opening the doors?

This is the first business plan I've ever written. Of course there are lots of examples out there online, but I'd like to see one more geared to opening a pet store. Would you share yours with me if you have one written?

Thinking back to when you first opened your store, what would you have done differently? This could be something as simple as having larger holding tanks to something more in depth, like having more insurance coverage.

Did you find it beneficial to go to your local frag swaps? I get mixed reviews when I ask store owners this question. Some say it's a waste of time, and some say it's good to just get the name out there. I side more with the latter, but what do you think?

What do you think is the best way to respond to a hobbiest posting negative things all over the web? One of my "favorite" customers I've dealt with came in saying the fish he got from us nuked his tank, proceeded to stomp his feet until he got wonderful discounts, left seemingly happy, and the posted reviews everywhere about how we "screwed him over". Forums, yelp, Google, everywhere. He even made stories up that never happened and had nothing to do with his actual scenario. What can you even do about that?

And lastly for now,low did you come up with your name?! For months I've ben thinking about just that part and have nothing on the table! :lmao:

Thanks for reading, and thanks ahead of time for any input that can be offered. :wave:

 

[snorvich]

Having been on the "board of directors" of an LFS and financial advisor to a second LFS, my initial suggestion is to compute your break even sales level initially assuming no service business. What you are likely to find, assuming you did so properly is a negative cash flow without a maintenance revenue component. Compute a new breakeven point to figure out the true cash flow breakeven point with a maintenance revenue component that covers the negative cash flow from store operations.

As to your other question, a venture capitalist will want to evaluate your total debt level and repayment strategy.

It is a very difficult business to survive in, I can assure you.

 

[Art13]

Well, i was only 4 when my parents sold off their pet store, but input is input right? lol. Anyways, the two things i can and still remember, one the name, just "our last name" pet store, so if you're last name is bluefin, it would be bluefin's aquarium center (my parents had more than just fish, hence the pet store after, i changed the latter for obvious reasons). While not very original, something about your name in it just makes it a bit more personable, they know its a family run business. Second, besides the location being good for growing the business, and the customer base to support it, make sure you also look into crime statistics and a good security system. Now i'm not saying this to scare you off, but its just a fact of life that it can occur. My parents wasn't in the best location in this respect, being in a certain part of Philadelphia, this was also 27 years ago now, and the reason he sold off the store was because he had to pull the gun he had behind the counter one too many times and it was no longer worth the risk of gambling with his life. Just my two cents on the two things i can remember, surprisingly with all the animals i've had over the years and tanks set up, i've never once worked as an employee for a fish or pet store.

 

[CHSUB]

i own and have owned several restaurants in the last 15 years. the only advice i give to people starting their own business is: never sign a personal guarantee!!!!

 

[lpsouth1978]

Let me start by saying that I do NOT own a LFS. I am simply a hobbiest that also has a degree in Business Management with an emphasis on Entrepreneurship. I figure that potential customers and business people could have some insights as well.

Did you find it beneficial to go to your local frag swaps? I get mixed reviews when I ask store owners this question. Some say it's a waste of time, and some say it's good to just get the name out there. I side more with the latter, but what do you think?
I would not expect to make much money from the swaps themselves, so in that aspect it could be deemed a waste of money. On the other hand, I think it is a great way to get to know the Reef Junkies in your area. Become a sponsor of any local reef clubs and frequent the meetings. Getting to know your customers and letting them know you will go a long way to building your business.

What do you think is the best way to respond to a hobbiest posting negative things all over the web? One of my "favorite" customers I've dealt with came in saying the fish he got from us nuked his tank, proceeded to stomp his feet until he got wonderful discounts, left seemingly happy, and the posted reviews everywhere about how we "screwed him over". Forums, yelp, Google, everywhere. He even made stories up that never happened and had nothing to do with his actual scenario. What can you even do about that?
I don't think there is anything you can do. There are always people who cannot be satisfied and will try to smear to your name. This is where the above question becomes a big factor. Knowing the reefers in your area will help to combat the negative reviews online.

And lastly for now,low did you come up with your name?! For months I've ben thinking about just that part and have nothing on the table! :lmao:
Friends and Family. Ask the people closest to you. Run ideas by them and see what they think of them. Also, be creative and think about web addresses. You can go onto Godaddy or other domain purchase sites and see if the name you want is available. The last thing you want is to name the business and then find that the web address is taken. I have even purchased several domain names, just to make sure I had them, and then didn't renew the ones I didn't use.

Thanks for reading, and thanks ahead of time for any input that can be offered. :wave:

Good luck with this endeavor!!! I hope I was at least a little help.

 

[Fretfreak13]

Thank you so much for the wonderful responses, everyone! This thread is already way better than I expected. :inlove:

Also I apologize for any spelling errors. I'm not noticing them until after I make the post and I'm too lazy to fix them. Ya'll get the point.

Having been on the "board of directors" of an LFS and financial advisor to a second LFS, my initial suggestion is to compute your break even sales level initially assuming no service business. What you are likely to find, assuming you did so properly is a negative cash flow without a maintenance revenue component. Compute a new breakeven point to figure out the true cash flow breakeven point with a maintenance revenue component that covers the negative cash flow from store operations.

As to your other question, a venture capitalist will want to evaluate your total debt level and repayment strategy.

It is a very difficult business to survive in, I can assure you.

Thanks Snorvich! I am wanting to do maintenence, but I'm sure my biggest issue with it will be the same as every other store that does it and that would be finding employees I trust to do it! My plan in the beginning, when it's a one woman show until I build my staff, would be to just offer maintence to the systems that I actually set up for people.

I know from my first lfs job how vital the maintence contracts are, especially in the slow summer months. Winter = busy season for aquariums. Solidifying that would be looking at my second lfs job where he didn't do service at all. Yikes...

Both break even points will 100% be added to my business plan portfolio.

Well, i was only 4 when my parents sold off their pet store, but input is input right? lol. Anyways, the two things i can and still remember, one the name, just "our last name" pet store, so if you're last name is bluefin, it would be bluefin's aquarium center (my parents had more than just fish, hence the pet store after, i changed the latter for obvious reasons). While not very original, something about your name in it just makes it a bit more personable, they know its a family run business. Second, besides the location being good for growing the business, and the customer base to support it, make sure you also look into crime statistics and a good security system. Now i'm not saying this to scare you off, but its just a fact of life that it can occur. My parents wasn't in the best location in this respect, being in a certain part of Philadelphia, this was also 27 years ago now, and the reason he sold off the store was because he had to pull the gun he had behind the counter one too many times and it was no longer worth the risk of gambling with his life. Just my two cents on the two things i can remember, surprisingly with all the animals i've had over the years and tanks set up, i've never once worked as an employee for a fish or pet store.

That is the best name suggestion I've had so far. I've asked some family members for ideas and, no joke, my mom comes up with Fishy McFishersons. Pass. Lol

Back to comparing the two stores I've worked for. The first one had about 14 cameras viewable via cell phone that could tell the difference if a customer was stealing or scratching his balls. Well worth the money.

Second store had nothing and has been robbed twice, though luckily the idiots robbing it only took what was in the register and left the 1000s of dollars of ecotech products alone lol.

I had overlooked security in startup costs. Thank you!

i own and have owned several restaurants in the last 15 years. the only advice i give to people starting their own business is: never sign a personal guarantee!!!!

Gotta love that grey area.

Good luck with this endeavor!!! I hope I was at least a little help.

About the swaps, that's how I view them too personally. Just make sure you have a biiiiig banner. Flashing lights and fireworks couldn't hurt either.

About the name smearing, I suppose you're right. That crap is just...ugh it bugs me.

About naming, that exactly why I'm trying to get my name now, five years before I open. I'm pretty good at web design and I'm learning a lot recently about SEO. One part of my business I'm glad I won't need to hire a webmaster. Hell I might even sell frags online with the masses before I open the shop.


Thanks again so much for these responses. You guys rule.

 

[ichthyogeek]

Umm....I really can't help with the business aspect, sorry. However, I can say that it would probably be a plus if you could get the hobbyists in your area to help supply you with livestock. Fish breeding is on the up, and so is coral fragging, so giving people store credit for tank raised stuff would be a good way to improve your relationship with the people there.

My username is derived from the Greek word for fish: "Ichthys" and what I am: a geek. Therefore, I am an ichthyogeek, or a fish-geek if you will. A store near me is called "The Fish Bowl", and another is called "The Fish Tank", and one that recently closed was "North-Side Aquatics". Fish Bowl and Fish Tank are pretty self explanatory, and I think that NSA was because it was on the north side of the state...just run a couple by us, and see what's happening...

On a completely different note, do you know what you'll be stocking? Like, plants, freshwater fish, freshwater nano, saltwater nano, corals, that kinda thing? What about supplies, like RO water and live cultures?

 

[Fretfreak13]

Thanks for another response! .

From my experience with livestock trading, there is a very careful like that needs to be respected and it's really hard to convey that to people that have no business experience. its gets really...ugh it's tough to explain. From my experience, once people start to realize that you'll take trades, they leave their wallet at home when they come to the store. They want trade for trade, and then when it comes time to pay the electric bill and you offer the electric company some sweet zoas that someone traded you instead of buying from you, they aren't pleased lol. While there are certain things I'd want to trade for I've found that just having a "no credit offered" policy is best...buuuut you'll find out eventually who the people you'd want to do trades with are in the hush-hush.

It's even tougher with fish breeders. Say, hypothetically, I could get Bangaiis from a farm that mass breeds them and pays their employees to come to work, do their job, and come go. I buy them for 1.00 each. Then a home breeder, who works and has family and THEN painstakingly pours the rest of his energy into his babies comes in and I tell them I'll take them for 1.00 each, just like my farm, leaves pretty ****ed off. It's the same product in the end, captive bred and raised babies but the farm can offer them pretty cheap because of mass sales.

I'm not sure really where I stand 100% on the breeding for credit thing yet. I guess I have time to think about it still, and I totally see where you're coming from about buying babies from the locals, but it's a tougher subject than it appears on the surface.

On the name thing, I seriously have nothing yet. I write down names and hate them enough to not share yet. :lol: I don't know if I want to go with something fun and cutsie, or something more modern and stylish to maybe appeal to higher rolling clients for setups.

I will be marine exclusive. I may dabble in pond depending on the demographics, but that's as far into fresh I'd want to go. I'll be stocking the basics for saltwater as well as higher end stuff as far as dry stock goes. deep blue, instant ocean, Boyd, innovative marine, bubble magus, etc. I'm a big fan of eco tech on the customer side, but they screw over their retailers soooooooooooo bad. I'd want to back a lighting company I know and love, but maybe more years of retailers screaming at them to get better on their profit margins and to stop reducing MSRP without reducing the wholesale cost will change their ways. Who knows...*sigh*

I have no problem selling both RO and store mixed saltwater, and I will keep rotifer cultures rolling.

As far as livestock, I'm a big invert nut and I like the weird stuff. I've had nine mantis tanks in the past haha. I'm sure there will always be something dark and spooky hanging out in my refugium. I will have a display macro tank to grow out and sell stocked with sea horses. They're not the best sellers, but man they bring in foot traffic! I'd also like to do a cylindrical moon jellyfish display for foot traffic as well, but I feel like that tank will be big bucks and could be added long after im open.

I will have a dedicated acro system, and mixed reef style frag tanks for everything else coral. In bringing in weekly or biweekly livestock I'll have the basics with a few oddballs in between, but the nicest fish will be in my main display and they will ALL be for sale. This is something I'm really trying to do for myself. We all get attached to our fish, but my display undoubtably be the most well kept up system and that's where the big dollar fish will go. I go into so many stores with nice displays and just out of curiosity ask about the prices of the fish and they're always "not for sale" while the rest of the store is nothing but firefish and yellow tangs. That will not be me, if someone wants my nice pair of leopard wrasses they can have them for the right price (+ a bottle of my tears) lol

Also, none and I mean NONE of my tanks will be acrylic. I know will will wind up hiring some high school kid as a tank scrubber and he will screw up thousands of dollars in acrylic tanks beyond repair. I know this because I have personally worked with four of them. Not dealing with that...

I felt like I rambled a lot in the post, sorry hah. I have so many ideas.

 

[ichthyogeek]

Dang...as a hopeful marine breeder (still in the RnD phase), I didn't know that BC's sold so cheaply...will you be selling ORA fish? Or predominantly wild caught? If WC, will you ensure sustainable harvest? idk, I'm just an incoming college freshman, I don't know about the specifics of this stuff...

If I may, a classier name would be better in my opinion. It just sounds more professional and that you know what you're doing. Higher rolling clients=rich people, right? and those people are the ones who probably have a higher chance of wanting you to maintain their tanks, right?

 

[ichthyogeek]

Dang...as a beginning fish breeder (still in the R&D stage), I understand, but still...do BC's really get that cheap? Just saying though, if you have rare home bred fish, you might as well buy them (like gobies and stuff, not clowns and cardinals)...

I feel that you should go for a more classy name, since your store will be focused on doing tank maintenance. Maybe I'm just making stupid assumptions here, but if you have a classy name, then that states that you know what you're doing. People will know that, especially more wealthy people. Said people (I'm assuming here) are more likely to ask that you set up a tank for them and maintain it for them...

Good luck!

 

[KAMIKAZE0214]

Thanks for another response! .

From my experience with livestock trading, there is a very careful like that needs to be respected and it's really hard to convey that to people that have no business experience. its gets really...ugh it's tough to explain. From my experience, once people start to realize that you'll take trades, they leave their wallet at home when they come to the store. They want trade for trade, and then when it comes time to pay the electric bill and you offer the electric company some sweet zoas that someone traded you instead of buying from you, they aren't pleased lol. While there are certain things I'd want to trade for I've found that just having a "no credit offered" policy is best...buuuut you'll find out eventually who the people you'd want to do trades with are in the hush-hush.

It's even tougher with fish breeders. Say, hypothetically, I could get Bangaiis from a farm that mass breeds them and pays their employees to come to work, do their job, and come go. I buy them for 1.00 each. Then a home breeder, who works and has family and THEN painstakingly pours the rest of his energy into his babies comes in and I tell them I'll take them for 1.00 each, just like my farm, leaves pretty ****ed off. It's the same product in the end, captive bred and raised babies but the farm can offer them pretty cheap because of mass sales.

I'm not sure really where I stand 100% on the breeding for credit thing yet. I guess I have time to think about it still, and I totally see where you're coming from about buying babies from the locals, but it's a tougher subject than it appears on the surface.

On the name thing, I seriously have nothing yet. I write down names and hate them enough to not share yet. :lol: I don't know if I want to go with something fun and cutsie, or something more modern and stylish to maybe appeal to higher rolling clients for setups.

I will be marine exclusive. I may dabble in pond depending on the demographics, but that's as far into fresh I'd want to go. I'll be stocking the basics for saltwater as well as higher end stuff as far as dry stock goes. deep blue, instant ocean, Boyd, innovative marine, bubble magus, etc. I'm a big fan of eco tech on the customer side, but they screw over their retailers soooooooooooo bad. I'd want to back a lighting company I know and love, but maybe more years of retailers screaming at them to get better on their profit margins and to stop reducing MSRP without reducing the wholesale cost will change their ways. Who knows...*sigh*

I have no problem selling both RO and store mixed saltwater, and I will keep rotifer cultures rolling.

As far as livestock, I'm a big invert nut and I like the weird stuff. I've had nine mantis tanks in the past haha. I'm sure there will always be something dark and spooky hanging out in my refugium. I will have a display macro tank to grow out and sell stocked with sea horses. They're not the best sellers, but man they bring in foot traffic! I'd also like to do a cylindrical moon jellyfish display for foot traffic as well, but I feel like that tank will be big bucks and could be added long after im open.

I will have a dedicated acro system, and mixed reef style frag tanks for everything else coral. In bringing in weekly or biweekly livestock I'll have the basics with a few oddballs in between, but the nicest fish will be in my main display and they will ALL be for sale. This is something I'm really trying to do for myself. We all get attached to our fish, but my display undoubtably be the most well kept up system and that's where the big dollar fish will go. I go into so many stores with nice displays and just out of curiosity ask about the prices of the fish and they're always "not for sale" while the rest of the store is nothing but firefish and yellow tangs. That will not be me, if someone wants my nice pair of leopard wrasses they can have them for the right price (+ a bottle of my tears) lol

Also, none and I mean NONE of my tanks will be acrylic. I know will will wind up hiring some high school kid as a tank scrubber and he will screw up thousands of dollars in acrylic tanks beyond repair. I know this because I have personally worked with four of them. Not dealing with that...

I felt like I rambled a lot in the post, sorry hah. I have so many ideas.

A local fish store owner told me his largest margins are on freshwater, they maintain a nice marine section as well.

 

[alton]

The only advice is "If you say you are going to open 7 days a week 12 to 8, then you better be there!" Stores that seem to fail are those that open late or close early on days. Also you better have a bunch of money saved because it will take years to break even.

 

[Halo_003]

Well, personally while I like the hobby, I don't want to work for it. (Not saying you shouldn't! If it makes you happy, do it.) My name recommendation: The Coral Co. Simple, clean, states what you are, and best of all it's professional.

That said, any first year profit projections you make, subtract 30% from it. Any first year costs, add 30%, and this should give you a more realistic, worst case scenario idea of what you'll be looking at. Find out if your local clubs have facebook pages and get active on them, answer questions, comment on FTS's, etc. This can be from either the business Facebook page or your own FB, either way people will come to know of you.

In your business plan make sure to assess your local competition thoroughly, why should someone invest in you rather than invest in helping The Other Coral Co. down the street expand their location? Make sure to explain in detail (not technical detail), what makes your planned store uniquely qualified for success. (You probably already know all of this if you're working on a business plan though.

Remember to pay a little more and get the extra small things, like calibration fluid and quality refractometers, trust me that reflects badly on a store if they have $20 amazon ones and calibrate with RODI.

Have you considered how to deal with disease outbreaks and control it in your display tanks? That can be very costly and time consuming.

Written as someone currently working on a business plan to start an aerospace corporation in 2018.

 

[TylerHaworth]

My advice is to seek out a failing LFS and buy them out or to find another LFS with an owner that wants out of the business.

Also, make yourself known in the community before opening a store.

Starting from scratch will be very tough and extremely costly in the short term.

 

[Fretfreak13]

Oh without question I'll be known in the area before opening. My next purchase now is a pretty new griffin saw so i can up my frag swap game

As far as buying a failing LFS, there is generally a reason they're failing. Ie. Bad location. It's a thought, and I'll definitely look to see what's around in the area, but that won't be my only source for a building/equipment. Long before I open I'll start renting a storage unit and clearing out petcos dollar per gallon sales for holding tanks. Gonna be sooooo tired of that awful glass drilling noise lol

Actually my dream little building would be a standalone that maybe used to be a flower shop. You know, with the little green house attachment on the side? That'd be nice for my little pond setup! Could put reef stuff out there too but I think it'll be a little tough to regulate the temperature for more sensitive animals in a small green house than it would be for some of the bigger grow out ones. The building would preferably have a stoplight in front of it on the road (easy access), and maybe right next to it would be a little stripmall with a restaurant. Nothing brings in people to "just look around" than food!

From what I've seen, if I'm renting a standalone building I'd be more likely to have the landlord let me buy it outright than if it were in a strip. I'd rather just pay the taxes on the property than the rent of course.

Thanks for the response Tyler! :spin1:

 

[TylerHaworth]

Yes they are likely failing for a reason, and I'm not necessarily suggesting taking over and moving in the same storefront and definitely not under the same name.

However, it's a great opportunity to pick up both livestock, drystock, display setups and other costly infrastructure for pennies on the dollar... You've got to think about commercial dehumidifiers and backup generators, as well as a ton of other junk that is extremely expensive and most folks don't ever imagine needing.

And employees... even if you don't want the whole staff, one or two knowledgeable and reliable employees can go a very long way in helping you succeed - Have you put thought into how you will attract employees to avoid being a LFS with useless/detrimental minimum wage help? How will you retain good employees if you aren't able to pay them very well initially?

Not to mention any accounts that they currently have that will aid in your initial cashflow deficits.

As far as buying a building outright to get started... Without substantial capital to invest yourself, it's not going to happen in my experience as a retail/commercial lender, and a bad idea in my experience as a small business owner... Lease a storefront, establish your business, and if things go well acquire a building of your own... The environment created by a LFS is VERY harsh and you do not want to be responsible for that AC unit that croaks or the electrical work that cannot handle the amperage you are forcing through it.

 

[TylerHaworth]

Another thing to consider... You're already worrying about being tight on money if you're considering whether to pay off student loans or to save for an initial capital investment.

My honest advice is to get a job, pay off all of your debts, AND have a significant amount of personal (non-business allocated) cash on hand before you ever invest a penny into such a fickle beast as a LFS.

One question that I always asked potentially starry-eyed folks looking to start a niche business with no corporate backstop was: "Can you afford to not pay yourself a dime for two years?" If your answer is even halfway unsure, you're not yet positioned well enough to tackle such an undertaking.

Have you thought about your personal living expenses in five years? Kids? Spouse? Housing? Unexpected Costs?

 

[gavinsepanik]

It sounds like you have the general knowledge needed to succeed. I wish you the best of luck and hope you start putting money away now :spin1:.

 

[Fretfreak13]

Yes they are likely failing for a reason, and I'm not necessarily suggesting taking over and moving in the same storefront and definitely not under the same name.

However, it's a great opportunity to pick up both livestock, drystock, display setups and other costly infrastructure for pennies on the dollar... You've got to think about commercial dehumidifiers and backup generators, as well as a ton of other junk that is extremely expensive and most folks don't ever imagine needing. While managing at my original job I did get to see firsthand how much a pain HVAC is. Good point.

And employees... even if you don't want the whole staff, one or two knowledgeable and reliable employees can go a very long way in helping you succeed - Have you put thought into how you will attract employees to avoid being a LFS with useless/detrimental minimum wage help? How will you retain good employees if you aren't able to pay them very well initially? This is something that happens over time from my experience as you get to know members in the community. Saltwater people dont just fall from the sky, but your customers do sometimes need extra cash flow or get laid off. I had been with that store since the beginning, and that is where 75% of our staff had come from. Actually the owner of my original store had been unknowingly training me to be his manager since I was 12 years old and I bought my first corals from his Craigslist ad with my dad. I'm not saying that this is the case for everywhere, but I have seen it work as a mentality of "if you build it they will come" as far as good employees.

Not to mention any accounts that they currently have that will aid in your initial cashflow deficits. another excellent point. Didn't think of that at all!

As far as buying a building outright to get started... Without substantial capital to invest yourself, it's not going to happen in my experience as a retail/commercial lender, and a bad idea in my experience as a small business owner... Lease a storefront, establish your business, and if things go well acquire a building of your own... The environment created by a LFS is VERY harsh and you do not want to be responsible for that AC unit that croaks or the electrical work that cannot handle the amperage you are forcing through it. that wasn't what I meant, but going back and reading what I typed I see where you got that. I meant more as a lease-to-own kind of deal. Unless I got a crazy deal on a place like another LFS I know has, which is the water utility is included in the rent. With an RO unit spitting out thousands of gallons weekly with a 4:1 ratio, that's worth it alone.

Have you thought about your personal living expenses in five years? Kids? Spouse? Housing? Unexpected Costs? Yes I have, though I can't imagine they'd be much different than they are now. I am married, my husband has a career that supports us even if I didn't work, there will absolutely be no children within the next five years (seriously). We rent, and will do so for a long time. In fact, my in laws are in their sixties and have rented their whole lives and also owned their own business before moving out of state, though it was a lot less of an investment than a LFS.

Thanks Gavin, that's the plan!

 

[birdfish]

Dang...as a beginning fish breeder (still in the R&D stage), I understand, but still...do BC's really get that cheap?

I think that was a hypothetical price just for arguments sake when Fretfreak
wrote:

"Say, hypothetically, I could get Bangaiis from a farm that mass breeds them and pays their employees to come to work, do their job, and come go. I buy them for 1.00 each. "

I cannot buy a Bangaii Cardinal for a dollar IN Indonesia or Bali before freight
to get it here. Some sources show tanked raised, wild caught, and 'trained' which means wild but eating frozen foods, not that they do calculus, etc. I would think any T.R. Bangaii here is worth more than a buck.