Saltwaterwill
New member
I hope u r very successful ...best of luck
I want to start a LFS
- Thread starter Fretfreak13
- Start date
toothybugs
New member
I'm curious where you're located.
For now, I would suggest getting your name out there with an online location - Facebook is great for online frag auctions ("Frag Auction Place" is a personal favorite) and starting a simple page with your name on it. Then you go from an online location which can be run out of your basement and 4 of your own tanks to a brick and mortar store when your means are all in order. Locally we have a guy who does that as his secondary income and he's gotten quite a following for having good prices, good service, and personal responses. He has his lines though and we have to respect them. He won't set up a brick store but if he did he already has a customer base from all over the Chicago/ south Wisconsin area.
My first job was the neighborhood hardware store which was a mom 'n' pop. "Todd" had a lot of friends who stopped by the store to grab stuff, pay him later, etc and I was told one night after closing, "The more you give, the more they'll take." So, to your trades/ credit point, I would consider writing it down and posting it somewhere. Define it. Things like "trade credit good for day of trade only" (that's what my LFS does) and "trades limited to X items/ dollars per day for fair market price" would likely go far to help you avoid smears. It's hard to say you got screwed when the owner's actions can be backed up by store policy.
What are some of the name ideas you've had?
For now, I would suggest getting your name out there with an online location - Facebook is great for online frag auctions ("Frag Auction Place" is a personal favorite) and starting a simple page with your name on it. Then you go from an online location which can be run out of your basement and 4 of your own tanks to a brick and mortar store when your means are all in order. Locally we have a guy who does that as his secondary income and he's gotten quite a following for having good prices, good service, and personal responses. He has his lines though and we have to respect them. He won't set up a brick store but if he did he already has a customer base from all over the Chicago/ south Wisconsin area.
My first job was the neighborhood hardware store which was a mom 'n' pop. "Todd" had a lot of friends who stopped by the store to grab stuff, pay him later, etc and I was told one night after closing, "The more you give, the more they'll take." So, to your trades/ credit point, I would consider writing it down and posting it somewhere. Define it. Things like "trade credit good for day of trade only" (that's what my LFS does) and "trades limited to X items/ dollars per day for fair market price" would likely go far to help you avoid smears. It's hard to say you got screwed when the owner's actions can be backed up by store policy.
What are some of the name ideas you've had?
gavinsepanik
New member
Where are you hoping to have your shop? (like what state,town etc.) Sorry if i missed it.
gavinsepanik
New member
Also one thing I like about my LFS (sho tank) is that he focuses 4/5 of his shop on livestock and only carries emergency supplies (heaters, food, etc) but if you need something he will order it and get the customers bulk pricing without having to buy in bulk. For example, dry rock, BRS sells theirs for around 2.50 per pound and since he orders it from a wholesaler in bulk (100+ pounds) it only ends up costing me 2 bucks per pound although I only buy ~20 lbs at his store. This also allows him to carry wayyy more livestock. Hopefully you understood that.
I have to agree with snorvich..... it is a very difficult business to survive in.
Remember, your BIG BOX stores such as Petco and PetSmart will likely be your Kryptonite. They will be able to offer more products at lower prices and appeal to every type of pet owner as opposed to just fish tank owners.
I have seen many specialized aquarium shops here in California shut down.....the competition is too steep.
People are not willing to work for "minimum wage" these days, and if you find those who do........ they will likely not have their heart and soul into your business and your product.
As an EMT, I can attest to this. Many of our EMT's and Paramedics could give a squirt of pee about their patients. We are Union employees who are often wayyyyyy over paid and sit in the ambulance playing on our iPads waiting for a medical aid call that most of us could care less about. Starting pay out here in California as an EMT is $19.00 per hour with a CAP of $25.00 per hour with full paid benefits. We have some who love their job, but most just do it for the money. Sad, very sad.
Owning a small business is very, very tuff these days, labor cost and taxes are a small business killer. Ill just have to keep waiting till I can match up all 6 numbers on that orange ticket that cost a dollar.
Good luck to you, hope you are a success.
Remember, your BIG BOX stores such as Petco and PetSmart will likely be your Kryptonite. They will be able to offer more products at lower prices and appeal to every type of pet owner as opposed to just fish tank owners.
I have seen many specialized aquarium shops here in California shut down.....the competition is too steep.
People are not willing to work for "minimum wage" these days, and if you find those who do........ they will likely not have their heart and soul into your business and your product.
As an EMT, I can attest to this. Many of our EMT's and Paramedics could give a squirt of pee about their patients. We are Union employees who are often wayyyyyy over paid and sit in the ambulance playing on our iPads waiting for a medical aid call that most of us could care less about. Starting pay out here in California as an EMT is $19.00 per hour with a CAP of $25.00 per hour with full paid benefits. We have some who love their job, but most just do it for the money. Sad, very sad.
Owning a small business is very, very tuff these days, labor cost and taxes are a small business killer. Ill just have to keep waiting till I can match up all 6 numbers on that orange ticket that cost a dollar.
Good luck to you, hope you are a success.
Rollins4Miles
New member
It seems like you're on the right path. You've gotten sound advice from the others already, particularly having realistic projections and accountings. Also, not having a personal guarantee on business debt is an important factor to remember. To add to the more formal advice, when you're ready to set up shop, get in touch with a business attorney. You may or may not need help legitimizing your business, but you will need proper documents for sales, maintenance, employees, internal business documents, etc.. Do not skimp on these documents. I can assure you that, if ever needed to rely on the language of a document, the extra money you spend on proper documents will pay for itself versus pre-fabricated documents. Source: business attorney - deal with it all the time / two clients are aquarium stores. As for the finances, ideally a loan officer would like to see that you paid off your debts and that you have capital set aside for the business start-up.
So for the less formal advice, let's talk about marketing! The existence and survival of your future store hinges on how successful your marketing is. You can have the best products at the best prices - if no one knows who you are then it's all for naught. Create a legitimate website (yourbusiness.com) and update it on a regular basis. Do not use Facebook or any other social media website as your stores actual website. I see this far too often. The social media should be used to direct traffic to your actual .com website. Get your business name on every directory and website you possibly can. Then tackle the more costly local advertising.
All of the longterm successful local reef stores that I've come across were structured in one of three ways: high volume / high turnover; maintenance based; or coral farm on premises. I recommend picking one of the three and doing it the best you can. As your business grows you can fully undertake a second area and work on perfecting that along with your current business model.
As for a name, don't worry about it at the moment. The right name will come to you in due time. But with that said, your name is crucially important (everything is important when creating your own company?). Make it gimmicky - make it fun. Examples of stores I used to frequent in Florida: World Wide Corals (everyone knows who they are), Ocean Blue, Ocean Direct, Fishy Business, Top Shelf Aquatics, Tanks A Lot, Sea In The City - a lot of catchy names.
Frag swaps - don't expect to make a killing at these events. The local frag swaps amongst local clubs and groups are usually set up to give the consumer a bit of a discount. These events are a great marketing opportunity for businesses and should be viewed more as a networking event rather than a sales event.
I'm sure I could talk for hours on this subject, but what I have now will have to do. Best of luck in your endeavors.
So for the less formal advice, let's talk about marketing! The existence and survival of your future store hinges on how successful your marketing is. You can have the best products at the best prices - if no one knows who you are then it's all for naught. Create a legitimate website (yourbusiness.com) and update it on a regular basis. Do not use Facebook or any other social media website as your stores actual website. I see this far too often. The social media should be used to direct traffic to your actual .com website. Get your business name on every directory and website you possibly can. Then tackle the more costly local advertising.
All of the longterm successful local reef stores that I've come across were structured in one of three ways: high volume / high turnover; maintenance based; or coral farm on premises. I recommend picking one of the three and doing it the best you can. As your business grows you can fully undertake a second area and work on perfecting that along with your current business model.
As for a name, don't worry about it at the moment. The right name will come to you in due time. But with that said, your name is crucially important (everything is important when creating your own company?). Make it gimmicky - make it fun. Examples of stores I used to frequent in Florida: World Wide Corals (everyone knows who they are), Ocean Blue, Ocean Direct, Fishy Business, Top Shelf Aquatics, Tanks A Lot, Sea In The City - a lot of catchy names.
Frag swaps - don't expect to make a killing at these events. The local frag swaps amongst local clubs and groups are usually set up to give the consumer a bit of a discount. These events are a great marketing opportunity for businesses and should be viewed more as a networking event rather than a sales event.
I'm sure I could talk for hours on this subject, but what I have now will have to do. Best of luck in your endeavors.
When you name the store, think how you're going to be in Google search and phone book, obsolete as phonebooks are becoming. If somebody types in 'fish' or 'saltwater tank', they need to see you top of the list.
Dunno if I'm dated in my info, but search when I set up a site has a function called 'meta', and if you fill that 'meta' with things like 'fish, saltwater, marine, fish tank, aquarium, aquarium lighting...' you'll find search finding you more often.
If you don't know how to manage your own website, find out. Being able to update your stock list, telling people yes, you have a purple firefish, is important: letting it get out of date means unhappy customers who show up looking for what sold a month ago, and if you can't update it yourself, that can be a problem. Maintain a facebook page for your business. There are wizzywig web editors that let you design a basic page pretty easily, and likewise you can use soemthing like WOrd Press, which is much easier to update, as a seamless part of your web presence. Make it interactive (allow comments, either moderated or not) and you can 'talk' back and forth with your customers.
Dunno if I'm dated in my info, but search when I set up a site has a function called 'meta', and if you fill that 'meta' with things like 'fish, saltwater, marine, fish tank, aquarium, aquarium lighting...' you'll find search finding you more often.
If you don't know how to manage your own website, find out. Being able to update your stock list, telling people yes, you have a purple firefish, is important: letting it get out of date means unhappy customers who show up looking for what sold a month ago, and if you can't update it yourself, that can be a problem. Maintain a facebook page for your business. There are wizzywig web editors that let you design a basic page pretty easily, and likewise you can use soemthing like WOrd Press, which is much easier to update, as a seamless part of your web presence. Make it interactive (allow comments, either moderated or not) and you can 'talk' back and forth with your customers.
HowdyDoody216
New member
You should name it "Bluefish"
Salt Creeper
New member
Here's a suggestion. Offer up to 30 gallons of RO for free or at least free with any purchase. Few Lfs do this and would give you a competitive edge. A lot of people still buy Ro. This will get people in the door. When I used to buy Ro it would cost me 200-300 every time because I couldn't resist buying something else. Put the outlet for your Ro at the back of the store so they have to walk through the whole store to get to it. This will get people to buy salt and food from you rather than online because they will be there anyways to get the free Ro that they think they are getting a great deal on. The cost of filters is worth the extra traffic imo.
Salt Creeper
New member
Another bit I forgot to mention. Try to get your shipments in when your customers have time to visit your shop. For example I only have time to go to my Lfs on the weekend and I used to shop at a place that gets everything on Tuesday so when I got there on Saturday they were sold out. I switched to a place that gets there shipments on Friday and now I get first pick Saturday morning. You could also just maintain a large stock of everything but that can be expensive and risky.
Couple of things I think should be mentioned.
1. Plan on making as strong an internet presence as possible. Having a good website will drive traffic to your brick and mortar store than any other type of advertising these days.
2. Trading livestock with locals is a great way to build up a core of loyal hobbyist customers. But it also has tax implications. If you are purchasing/trading livestock from hobbyists that is technically taxable income to them and a business expense for you. Which should be reported on both party's tax returns. You may have to setup each hobbyist as a vendor and file a W9 for each one and report the money you pay them on a 1099.
Now most small stores don't do this and slide by under the table but it is illegal and it could cost you your business if you do get caught.
(P.S. This is a big reason why Petco and Petsmart don't take trade in's by the way)
1. Plan on making as strong an internet presence as possible. Having a good website will drive traffic to your brick and mortar store than any other type of advertising these days.
2. Trading livestock with locals is a great way to build up a core of loyal hobbyist customers. But it also has tax implications. If you are purchasing/trading livestock from hobbyists that is technically taxable income to them and a business expense for you. Which should be reported on both party's tax returns. You may have to setup each hobbyist as a vendor and file a W9 for each one and report the money you pay them on a 1099.
Now most small stores don't do this and slide by under the table but it is illegal and it could cost you your business if you do get caught.
(P.S. This is a big reason why Petco and Petsmart don't take trade in's by the way)
organism
code monkey
I owned an LFS for years and then worked in wholesale and importing for while, so here's my 2 cents:
First is location location location. Not which part of the city you're in, but which city you're in. There are lots of great LFS here in Los Angeles, and they all make money because we have a high hobbyist density. I knew a shop in Ohio that had great corals but closed due to not having enough hobbyists nearby. Hobbyists will seek you out, no one goes to stores because they drove past them in high-rent high-visibility areas, they find them on Google. My shop was in an industrial area and never had problems making money, the cheap rent and power helped too.
Now that you're physically living in a city that has a high hobbyist density, the second concern is money. Just triple whatever amount of money you think your first year will cost and you'll be halfway there. Putting together a store from scratch is extremely expensive, and I wouldn't recommend dry goods since Amazon will always have you beat. I couldn't more strongly recommend starting in your garage or home and then building up slowly from there. It will help you get all of the mistakes out of the way as learn how to put a system together as well as build a brand and a customer base, and if you can't make your garage work you definitely can't make a store work. Finally, it will also help you build what you really need, which is
Connections connections connections. Can you get good corals? More importantly, can you get nicer stuff than your competitors and be able to sell it for less money? Those connections don't fall from the sky when you open up a shop, quite the opposite you need to have them in your pocket before you open the doors. Wholesale reps work on commission, and every one of them has a stack of customers who tell them "let me know when you have a bunch of cherry pieces and I'll order." If you order consistently they'll bend over backwards for you, but if you're one of those sporadic "send me the nicest stuff" people then it's a waste of time and money to sell to you. The nicest pieces are going to someone who orders on a weekly basis because it makes the shop more money and therefore makes the rep more money. Shops that ordered from me every week made bank, I even went into work on Sundays for them if they needed corals on a Monday.
My advice is not to do it. I sold my shop because I got burned out. It's a ton of work, plus you'll see the worst in humanity and it will eat away at you over time. That guy who left bad feedback even though you did everything he wanted is called a good day. Try eating the 40th fraudulent chargeback someone filed with their credit card company just to get $300 of free corals only to see them sell frags online a week later, or try to sleep after some anonymous person sends you an email that they're going to pour bleach into your tanks.
First is location location location. Not which part of the city you're in, but which city you're in. There are lots of great LFS here in Los Angeles, and they all make money because we have a high hobbyist density. I knew a shop in Ohio that had great corals but closed due to not having enough hobbyists nearby. Hobbyists will seek you out, no one goes to stores because they drove past them in high-rent high-visibility areas, they find them on Google. My shop was in an industrial area and never had problems making money, the cheap rent and power helped too.
Now that you're physically living in a city that has a high hobbyist density, the second concern is money. Just triple whatever amount of money you think your first year will cost and you'll be halfway there. Putting together a store from scratch is extremely expensive, and I wouldn't recommend dry goods since Amazon will always have you beat. I couldn't more strongly recommend starting in your garage or home and then building up slowly from there. It will help you get all of the mistakes out of the way as learn how to put a system together as well as build a brand and a customer base, and if you can't make your garage work you definitely can't make a store work. Finally, it will also help you build what you really need, which is
Connections connections connections. Can you get good corals? More importantly, can you get nicer stuff than your competitors and be able to sell it for less money? Those connections don't fall from the sky when you open up a shop, quite the opposite you need to have them in your pocket before you open the doors. Wholesale reps work on commission, and every one of them has a stack of customers who tell them "let me know when you have a bunch of cherry pieces and I'll order." If you order consistently they'll bend over backwards for you, but if you're one of those sporadic "send me the nicest stuff" people then it's a waste of time and money to sell to you. The nicest pieces are going to someone who orders on a weekly basis because it makes the shop more money and therefore makes the rep more money. Shops that ordered from me every week made bank, I even went into work on Sundays for them if they needed corals on a Monday.
My advice is not to do it. I sold my shop because I got burned out. It's a ton of work, plus you'll see the worst in humanity and it will eat away at you over time. That guy who left bad feedback even though you did everything he wanted is called a good day. Try eating the 40th fraudulent chargeback someone filed with their credit card company just to get $300 of free corals only to see them sell frags online a week later, or try to sleep after some anonymous person sends you an email that they're going to pour bleach into your tanks.
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CHSUB
"Certified Hobby Expert"
this is true in any retail business, and if it wasn't a "ton of work" everyone would do it; nothing risked nothing gained. if you want hard work, try owning a restaurant! all that said, most small business fail in the first 3 years, over 90%.
toothybugs
New member
I was looking for a skimmer for a new nano setup, based off ideas I found here. My LFS guy went out of his way to let me look at a few and I settled on one not in my list. It was a little higher than my ideal price point - it took a minute and I could tell he was done with his talk because it hit that awkward silence "Okay what do you want to do now" point. Out of respect I took the hint, pulled the trigger, and was actually very surprised with the quality of product when I got home. It cost me an extra 30 bucks over Marine Depot, but eh. It was worth it for all the help and extras over the last year.
That said, the dude has nearly no life outside the store.
I have zero experience in retail when in comes to a LFS, but as a consumer I know what was important to me.
I forget who said it but a strong presence on the internet is extremely important. When I lived in different cities I googled every LFS by just typing in simply "saltwater aquarium store." I know my generation 20-30 something's google everything. Also I don't know if someone else mentioned but craigslist also. I google aquarium under craigslist and I found a LFS that didn't initially come up in Google.
I don't know about anyone else but I know I'd rather see the livestock in person than ordering off the Internet any day, even if it costs me a few bucks more. Also my LFS will order any equipment you need for the price on the net and you don't pay shipping. So I like that because it may take another day or two but to have them order it for you and either steer you away from certain equipment before you buy it because it's junk means a lot to me. I mentioned this to my LFS but they never implamented it was to give out general care sheet with eachother livestock purchase. I think a lot of people would appreicate a general care sheet for their purchase.
I forget who said it but a strong presence on the internet is extremely important. When I lived in different cities I googled every LFS by just typing in simply "saltwater aquarium store." I know my generation 20-30 something's google everything. Also I don't know if someone else mentioned but craigslist also. I google aquarium under craigslist and I found a LFS that didn't initially come up in Google.
I don't know about anyone else but I know I'd rather see the livestock in person than ordering off the Internet any day, even if it costs me a few bucks more. Also my LFS will order any equipment you need for the price on the net and you don't pay shipping. So I like that because it may take another day or two but to have them order it for you and either steer you away from certain equipment before you buy it because it's junk means a lot to me. I mentioned this to my LFS but they never implamented it was to give out general care sheet with eachother livestock purchase. I think a lot of people would appreicate a general care sheet for their purchase.
The number is, I suspect higher for LFS. I live in a large metropolitan area and 9 out of 10 new LFS here fold within two years (when they run out of credit card credit).
My advice is not to do it.
Fretfreak13
I am not a boy!
Wow this thread has taken off! Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful replies! I'm still going to try my best to answer every one of you, but its starting to get tough! Here goes...
I'm so sorry I didn't see your post! We must have been typing at the same time. Yes, that price was totally hypothetical. I'm really leaning twords the same on the name. I want a name that'll give you tingles, not giggles.
I'm just not interested in it and I know if I don't have the passion for it it'll show in my tanks. Both shops I've worked at were strictly marine. The first shop is doing a little too well for itself (lol) and the second could be doing better, but its majorly a location issue, not the livestock. Thanks for the input though! =)
No friggin kidding! I HATE when I'm sitting outside of a store in my car waiting for it to open when the sign on the door clearly says that I'm on time and they employees are not. As far as breaking even, I'm prepared to wait to break even, but hoping with proper maintenance accounts it wont be as long as you're thinking.
As far as disease goes, and I know you're all going to scoff at this one, it REALLY matters where you get your fish from. This is from looking at two polar opposite stores and their practices.
One store I worked for purchased their fish from wholesalers in LA (like most stores do). This is very easy for the store, because all the fish they'd ever want to stock could be ordered from one source. Want to special order a fish? Great! It'll be here in two days. HOWEVER, wholesalers take fish from all over the world, cram them into tiny cramped tanks, and there they sit until some store around the country wants them. Most of the time they are not even fed because turnover is expected to be pretty quick. It is for your yellow tangs and clownfish, but not so much for your crosshatch triggers and bandit angels. Once they arrive at the store, these fish are often sick to begin with, emaciated, and the last thing on their minds is eating.
Of course, the proper store will then put them into a coppered system, which sounds like a grand idea until you actually have to maintain a proper level of therapeutic copper on a 1500g+ system. It is NOTHING like doing it in your little 20g bare bottom quarantine tank at home. Sand is necessary in an LFS for fish like diamond gobies and leopard wrasses. Live rock, obviously, also necessary because this is a permanent system housing hundreds of animals. Sand and live rock absorb copper, affecting that level you are trying to maintain. Keep it too low and you have sick fish, and accidentally boost it too high and your entire system dies of copper poisoning. NOT a pretty sight.
The other side of the ordering process skips the wholesalers all together and orders direct from the source. THIS, no matter how much of a pain it can be, will be what I do. The down sides are that shipping costs are about triple, and that you can only order certain fish from certain places so multiple orders weekly may be needed. However, after seeing the results first hand, there is no way I'll go back to ordering from LA. The fish skip "fish pound" if you will. MUCH less stress right from the get go, and more often than not these guys would eat in the acclimation buckets if you'd let them. The store that orders this way runs zero medications and I've never seen healthier fish. Their DOA list from shipping is also about 60% lower than coming out of LA, and these are animals that are being shipped two day freight from Aussie, not 18 hours from LA. That says so much.
I will of course advocate quarantining to my customers, but that will be their job and not mine. I know what you guys are probably thinking, but if you haven't seen it first hand then seriously...you don't even know.
Thank you! :spin1:
I don't want to say my location because of the way I'm talking about the shops I've worked at. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus. <3
I'm going to set up a website and facebook first for sure. Craiglist, and maybe even eBay too, but first I need that friggin name!!!
The trade credit for same day thing is friggin genius!!! I'm a stickler for policies. That happens when you become a manager for any kind of business I think. No matter what situation, if there is a customer yelling in your face, its always wonderful to smile and point to that pretty piece of paper on the front counter.
Seriously...I've got nothing. I keep looking at my cat and thinking how much fun she'd have in a fish store. "Eliza's Playground" doesn't really scream aquarium shop. lol
Again I want to be careful about saying where I'm at, but as a general rule it'll be southern east coast.
I gotcha, but if I stick with the plan of doing maintenance I'll need products on hand. The store's space will certainly be geared twords the critters. Less things to dust, plus the markup on drystock is generally just...sad.
Oh, I'm an avid lottery player too. I think all us dreamers are. California, specifically LA, is like the Vegas of the fish world because thats where most of the marine critters around there world first touch US soil. I wouldn't dream of opening a shop in Cali. Those that are there are soooooo deeply rooted already. That's like opening a Mcdonalds across the street from a McDonalds :lol: Ok I know you couldn't actually do that, but you get the drift.
I'm listening to American Dad as I type this, and no joke they just did a bit about EMTs. I wish I could find it on youtube to link here but I just died laughing based on what you just said. If you have netflix or something, its Season 9 Episode 3.
Thanks for the advise with the legal matters. This is really my lowest point as far as understanding what needs to be done with opening a business and I know its one of the, if not THE most important thing.
Luckily one of the things I am wonderful at is marketing! =) I am very familiar with building websites. I have no worries about this part and am so excited about it I want to start working on it now...which comes back to the name issue!
As far as the structure, I'd rather have a farm than anything else. Wouldn't any hobbiest? I've visited quite a few and every one seems to chuck that "location, location, location" motto right out the door. It doesn't seem like much can be done about it though, farms need room and theres room in the country. I'm afraid a super high turnover store would be like running a petco. While I am fully aware of the insane amount of work a maintenance based LFS is, this is probably my choice.
One of my coworkers was just at World Wide last week and wont shut up about it!!! I want to go soooo bad. Top Shelf Aquariums so far is my favorite idea yet! I'm 5'1" and it would also be a pretty funny joke seeing as I can never REACH anything on the top shelf! Did you seriously just pull those out of thin air? I feel pretty dumb now...heh
Thanks Sk8r! What you're talking about is what I'm currently immersed in learning more about. Its called SEO, or search engine optimization. =) I am very website savvy and am super excited to get rolling on it.
Thats a great idea for a door buster promotion! One thing I really like is something I've seen another LFS do and that is buying "punch" cards for RO and premixed saltwater. Hypothetically, say RO water is normally a dollar per gallon. The store sells punch cards worth 100g of water for $75, now making RO only 75 cents a gallon. On the card there is a 25% of livestock coupon as well which can be used one time and will be punched out when used. I love those cards! People can walk into the store, grab the water they need, get the card punched, and never even pull out their wallet.
As far as shipments goes, I was planning on closing on Mondays and receiving shipments then. Both stores I've worked at do that it makes all the difference when trying to deal with mass amounts of animals at one time. Acclimation is already really stressful, and having customers in there pulling off lids to see whats in the drip buckets first and little kids running around during that time just makes it worse on the animals. They mean no harm, I know, but I've seen one too many wrasses hop out of a bucket because someone was screwing around with it that shouldn't have been. I will do everything in my power to only acclimate when we're closed to avoid this problem, and based on average customer traffic through stores Mondays is normally the day to do it.
Wow, I had no idea! Jeeze...doing W9s for everyone would be a friggin nightmare. If anyone actually knows a store that does this, I'd love to talk to the owner if he/she would share firsthand insight on this. Please PM me their email address if you do!
Thank you for the first hand experience. I'm sorry you eventually burned out. Looking back on it I'd think that would be heartbreaking, and my heart goes out to you. I know well enough already that people suck. I hope your shop sold for a pretty penny at least! One of the biggest hiccups I'm running into with the garage thing is getting livestock in the first place. Wholesalers nowadays not only want your EIN, but also your address so they can friggin google satellite your store to make sure you are actually a commercial building with a parking lot instead of a house! I'm slowly finding ways around this, but good God it shouldn't be this hard to give someone my money.
I did a lot of the ordering for one of my stores so I had some decent relationships and experiences with wholesalers. I even had one personal cell phone numbers. lol I totally get what you're saying about the quantity of orders, which is another issue with the garage shop. Filling a garage with coral is a lot easier to do than a store theoretically, but in reality its not because the wholesalers send you a bunch of crap. The way its looking is that when I set up at home I'll just be growing out my own personal pieces and selling those. There wont be much profit in that because it'll take sooooooo long, but I don't want tanks full of brown bombers that I'd get from wholesalers until I could order in higher quantities. Sigh.
And as far as not doing it all...well someone has to! Our hobby would die without those little ma and pa stores. I know I didn't fall in love with saltwater walking into petco.
Well on day number 1096 I'll throw a big party! =)
I'm so sorry I didn't see your post! We must have been typing at the same time. Yes, that price was totally hypothetical. I'm really leaning twords the same on the name. I want a name that'll give you tingles, not giggles.
I'm just not interested in it and I know if I don't have the passion for it it'll show in my tanks. Both shops I've worked at were strictly marine. The first shop is doing a little too well for itself (lol) and the second could be doing better, but its majorly a location issue, not the livestock. Thanks for the input though! =)
No friggin kidding! I HATE when I'm sitting outside of a store in my car waiting for it to open when the sign on the door clearly says that I'm on time and they employees are not. As far as breaking even, I'm prepared to wait to break even, but hoping with proper maintenance accounts it wont be as long as you're thinking.
As far as disease goes, and I know you're all going to scoff at this one, it REALLY matters where you get your fish from. This is from looking at two polar opposite stores and their practices.
One store I worked for purchased their fish from wholesalers in LA (like most stores do). This is very easy for the store, because all the fish they'd ever want to stock could be ordered from one source. Want to special order a fish? Great! It'll be here in two days. HOWEVER, wholesalers take fish from all over the world, cram them into tiny cramped tanks, and there they sit until some store around the country wants them. Most of the time they are not even fed because turnover is expected to be pretty quick. It is for your yellow tangs and clownfish, but not so much for your crosshatch triggers and bandit angels. Once they arrive at the store, these fish are often sick to begin with, emaciated, and the last thing on their minds is eating.
Of course, the proper store will then put them into a coppered system, which sounds like a grand idea until you actually have to maintain a proper level of therapeutic copper on a 1500g+ system. It is NOTHING like doing it in your little 20g bare bottom quarantine tank at home. Sand is necessary in an LFS for fish like diamond gobies and leopard wrasses. Live rock, obviously, also necessary because this is a permanent system housing hundreds of animals. Sand and live rock absorb copper, affecting that level you are trying to maintain. Keep it too low and you have sick fish, and accidentally boost it too high and your entire system dies of copper poisoning. NOT a pretty sight.
The other side of the ordering process skips the wholesalers all together and orders direct from the source. THIS, no matter how much of a pain it can be, will be what I do. The down sides are that shipping costs are about triple, and that you can only order certain fish from certain places so multiple orders weekly may be needed. However, after seeing the results first hand, there is no way I'll go back to ordering from LA. The fish skip "fish pound" if you will. MUCH less stress right from the get go, and more often than not these guys would eat in the acclimation buckets if you'd let them. The store that orders this way runs zero medications and I've never seen healthier fish. Their DOA list from shipping is also about 60% lower than coming out of LA, and these are animals that are being shipped two day freight from Aussie, not 18 hours from LA. That says so much.
I will of course advocate quarantining to my customers, but that will be their job and not mine. I know what you guys are probably thinking, but if you haven't seen it first hand then seriously...you don't even know.
Thank you! :spin1:
I don't want to say my location because of the way I'm talking about the shops I've worked at. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus. <3
I'm going to set up a website and facebook first for sure. Craiglist, and maybe even eBay too, but first I need that friggin name!!!
The trade credit for same day thing is friggin genius!!! I'm a stickler for policies. That happens when you become a manager for any kind of business I think. No matter what situation, if there is a customer yelling in your face, its always wonderful to smile and point to that pretty piece of paper on the front counter.
Seriously...I've got nothing. I keep looking at my cat and thinking how much fun she'd have in a fish store. "Eliza's Playground" doesn't really scream aquarium shop. lol
Again I want to be careful about saying where I'm at, but as a general rule it'll be southern east coast.
I gotcha, but if I stick with the plan of doing maintenance I'll need products on hand. The store's space will certainly be geared twords the critters. Less things to dust, plus the markup on drystock is generally just...sad.
Oh, I'm an avid lottery player too. I think all us dreamers are. California, specifically LA, is like the Vegas of the fish world because thats where most of the marine critters around there world first touch US soil. I wouldn't dream of opening a shop in Cali. Those that are there are soooooo deeply rooted already. That's like opening a Mcdonalds across the street from a McDonalds :lol: Ok I know you couldn't actually do that, but you get the drift.
I'm listening to American Dad as I type this, and no joke they just did a bit about EMTs. I wish I could find it on youtube to link here but I just died laughing based on what you just said. If you have netflix or something, its Season 9 Episode 3.
Thanks for the advise with the legal matters. This is really my lowest point as far as understanding what needs to be done with opening a business and I know its one of the, if not THE most important thing.
Luckily one of the things I am wonderful at is marketing! =) I am very familiar with building websites. I have no worries about this part and am so excited about it I want to start working on it now...which comes back to the name issue!
As far as the structure, I'd rather have a farm than anything else. Wouldn't any hobbiest? I've visited quite a few and every one seems to chuck that "location, location, location" motto right out the door. It doesn't seem like much can be done about it though, farms need room and theres room in the country. I'm afraid a super high turnover store would be like running a petco. While I am fully aware of the insane amount of work a maintenance based LFS is, this is probably my choice.
One of my coworkers was just at World Wide last week and wont shut up about it!!! I want to go soooo bad. Top Shelf Aquariums so far is my favorite idea yet! I'm 5'1" and it would also be a pretty funny joke seeing as I can never REACH anything on the top shelf! Did you seriously just pull those out of thin air? I feel pretty dumb now...heh
Thanks Sk8r! What you're talking about is what I'm currently immersed in learning more about. Its called SEO, or search engine optimization. =) I am very website savvy and am super excited to get rolling on it.
Thats a great idea for a door buster promotion! One thing I really like is something I've seen another LFS do and that is buying "punch" cards for RO and premixed saltwater. Hypothetically, say RO water is normally a dollar per gallon. The store sells punch cards worth 100g of water for $75, now making RO only 75 cents a gallon. On the card there is a 25% of livestock coupon as well which can be used one time and will be punched out when used. I love those cards! People can walk into the store, grab the water they need, get the card punched, and never even pull out their wallet.
As far as shipments goes, I was planning on closing on Mondays and receiving shipments then. Both stores I've worked at do that it makes all the difference when trying to deal with mass amounts of animals at one time. Acclimation is already really stressful, and having customers in there pulling off lids to see whats in the drip buckets first and little kids running around during that time just makes it worse on the animals. They mean no harm, I know, but I've seen one too many wrasses hop out of a bucket because someone was screwing around with it that shouldn't have been. I will do everything in my power to only acclimate when we're closed to avoid this problem, and based on average customer traffic through stores Mondays is normally the day to do it.
Wow, I had no idea! Jeeze...doing W9s for everyone would be a friggin nightmare. If anyone actually knows a store that does this, I'd love to talk to the owner if he/she would share firsthand insight on this. Please PM me their email address if you do!
Thank you for the first hand experience. I'm sorry you eventually burned out. Looking back on it I'd think that would be heartbreaking, and my heart goes out to you. I know well enough already that people suck. I hope your shop sold for a pretty penny at least! One of the biggest hiccups I'm running into with the garage thing is getting livestock in the first place. Wholesalers nowadays not only want your EIN, but also your address so they can friggin google satellite your store to make sure you are actually a commercial building with a parking lot instead of a house! I'm slowly finding ways around this, but good God it shouldn't be this hard to give someone my money.
I did a lot of the ordering for one of my stores so I had some decent relationships and experiences with wholesalers. I even had one personal cell phone numbers. lol I totally get what you're saying about the quantity of orders, which is another issue with the garage shop. Filling a garage with coral is a lot easier to do than a store theoretically, but in reality its not because the wholesalers send you a bunch of crap. The way its looking is that when I set up at home I'll just be growing out my own personal pieces and selling those. There wont be much profit in that because it'll take sooooooo long, but I don't want tanks full of brown bombers that I'd get from wholesalers until I could order in higher quantities. Sigh.
And as far as not doing it all...well someone has to! Our hobby would die without those little ma and pa stores. I know I didn't fall in love with saltwater walking into petco.
Well on day number 1096 I'll throw a big party! =)
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Fretfreak13
I am not a boy!
WOW! I actually had to cut this reply in half.
Eh, I already don't have a life outside of work. I'll be trading a lack of a life for another form of the same.
I applaud you on buying his skimmer. Thank you for doing that!!! If any readers have actually gotten this far into my insanely long post, please PLEASE take this part and cling to it for dear life. I can not stress enough how irritating it is as a sales person spending an hour of your time talking to someone, explaining everything perfectly, only to have them write down the names of the products you were showing them, smile, wave and walk out the door to go purchase it online. The owner of that store had paid that sales person not only to learn insane amounts of information, be able to regurgitate it in a way that you could understand, and to actually share that information with you. Not only did that store just lose out on the time that could be spent on a customer that actually would have purchased something, they lost money on paying that employee to sit there and talk to you to no avail, AND on the actual product itself. THIS is what puts stores out of business. I've never had more "Scrubs murder moments" than the many of times this has happened to me.
Plus, if you have any questions about that piece of equipment you bought online, good luck contacting the place you bought it from for help. After that burn you know your LFS isn't offering their expertise to you anymore.
As far as the care sheets go, I can see where that would be great! However, I can also see where that could be costly to print out. Since I'm starting working on the website way before opening the store I'll be working on care sheets to put on it instead. It'll be easier I think to direct people to the website than have the space used to keep the papers around, and the money to print them out. =)
I pretty much already answered this through Organisim's post but didn't want you to think I didn't see it. Thanks for the input! I probably wont take this particular line of advise, but one thing I'd really like to do is resurrect this thread ten years from now if its possible. If everything goes as planned I will have had the store opened for five years by then. OR the business would have failed, and I could post about that too. =)
Eh, I already don't have a life outside of work. I'll be trading a lack of a life for another form of the same.
I applaud you on buying his skimmer. Thank you for doing that!!! If any readers have actually gotten this far into my insanely long post, please PLEASE take this part and cling to it for dear life. I can not stress enough how irritating it is as a sales person spending an hour of your time talking to someone, explaining everything perfectly, only to have them write down the names of the products you were showing them, smile, wave and walk out the door to go purchase it online. The owner of that store had paid that sales person not only to learn insane amounts of information, be able to regurgitate it in a way that you could understand, and to actually share that information with you. Not only did that store just lose out on the time that could be spent on a customer that actually would have purchased something, they lost money on paying that employee to sit there and talk to you to no avail, AND on the actual product itself. THIS is what puts stores out of business. I've never had more "Scrubs murder moments" than the many of times this has happened to me.
Plus, if you have any questions about that piece of equipment you bought online, good luck contacting the place you bought it from for help. After that burn you know your LFS isn't offering their expertise to you anymore.
Thank you for your input! In this thread your side of things are just as important as the behind the scenes stuff.
As far as the care sheets go, I can see where that would be great! However, I can also see where that could be costly to print out. Since I'm starting working on the website way before opening the store I'll be working on care sheets to put on it instead. It'll be easier I think to direct people to the website than have the space used to keep the papers around, and the money to print them out. =)
I pretty much already answered this through Organisim's post but didn't want you to think I didn't see it. Thanks for the input! I probably wont take this particular line of advise, but one thing I'd really like to do is resurrect this thread ten years from now if its possible. If everything goes as planned I will have had the store opened for five years by then. OR the business would have failed, and I could post about that too. =)
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