ICH - Can You Live With It? Plan of action/opinions needed (did everything right)...

[homer1475]

I've had great success with the TTM method, hypo and copper require way to much work to keep levels exactly(one point plus or minus cancels them out).

My flame angel had ich so bad it was near death, and all my other fish had it too(because I didn't quarantine to begin with). I used TTM on all my fish, left my DT fallow for 74 days, and haven't seen a single spot after TTM a few months ago.

TTM is so simple it negates using copper or hypo, and there should be no reason anyone wouldn't do it. A couple 5G buckets, 2 heaters, and 2 bubble wands is all you need(unless you have very large fish obviously).

 

[laga77]

Stop feeding the pellets and flakes. They contain wheat, corn, alfalfa, and other fruits and vegetables. These were never intended to be eaten by reef fishes and, in fact, the oils found in terrestrial plants cause damage to the liver and heart in marine fishes. Stay with live, fresh, and frozen foods to boost a fishes immune system.

 

[CStrickland]

Yours isn't the only "did everything right and still got ich" tank. I think it happens a lot more than we like to think. You probably won't ever know how it got in, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of people who claim that their tank is ich-free are full of it. Not all, but a lot. People with strict qt also tend not to feed cheap food, and stock mindfully, so who knows? It's total speculation.

My qt is way more about catching brook / velvet / uronema etc. than ich. But I don't see any reason not to do easy stuff like ttm, if you can keep it low stress. I think a lot of fish die from qt stress and we just chalk it up to them being weak and are happy they didn't infect the dt when actually they would've been fine if they were put straight in.

I really don't think there's any right answer, except that all those "ich blaster exxxxtreme" potions at the lfs are scams.

 

[nuxx]

What are you guys thinking about the video?

No real marks today... if I can see something flare up on a fin I'll have a much better idea of what's going on.

I know hippos are scratchers in general, maybe the Black Tang and him being at odds right now is bringing the scratching behavior out. It tends to only scratch when the Black is close or stressed (i.e. followed by a camera).

 

[homer1475]

What are you guys thinking about the video?

No real marks today... if I can see something flare up on a fin I'll have a much better idea of what's going on.

I know hippos are scratchers in general, maybe the Black Tang and him being at odds right now is bringing the scratching behavior out. It tends to only scratch when the Black is close or stressed (i.e. followed by a camera).

In all honesty, it looks to me to be more of a rollover and be submissive(like dogs do) kind of thing then actually scratching. My flame angel does this exact thing when my big clown comes near it. Even in mid tank with no rocks around to "scratch" on.

Could the spots you see be bite marks and not actual ich cysts? You did mention the fins looked a little ripped up.

 

[skp]

What are you guys thinking about the video?

No real marks today... if I can see something flare up on a fin I'll have a much better idea of what's going on.

I know hippos are scratchers in general, maybe the Black Tang and him being at odds right now is bringing the scratching behavior out. It tends to only scratch when the Black is close or stressed (i.e. followed by a camera).

I think it has ich in it's gills and it's only reminded of it under stress.

 

[Bolivian Ram]

I would feed the fish well OP. I have never encountered ich with my current tank of fish but again I don't QT either so I'm sure it's possibly there. I just feed my fish well and regularly and so far no ich or anything associated with ich like flashing or cysts.

So yes, your fish can live with it.

 

[coolxborg]

This is frightening for me to hear. I recently upgraded to a 225g and carefully treating my fish and setup 5+ QT tanks. The only difference from your process is im using TTM instead of Cupramine. All my fish will go through that.

If I do see Ich, I would probably try to live with it as well. It would be quite disheartening if I see it after investing time and money.

 

[nuxx]

In all honesty, it looks to me to be more of a rollover and be submissive(like dogs do) kind of thing then actually scratching. My flame angel does this exact thing when my big clown comes near it. Even in mid tank with no rocks around to "scratch" on.

Could the spots you see be bite marks and not actual ich cysts? You did mention the fins looked a little ripped up.

It is possible, the two marks were raised last night, which made me think punctures.

The Black and YB Blue have been at it the last day. Also noticed a long white scratch behind one of the Black's fins.

 

[nuxx]

This is frightening for me to hear. I recently upgraded to a 225g and carefully treating my fish and setup 5+ QT tanks. The only difference from your process is im using TTM instead of Cupramine. All my fish will go through that.

If I do see Ich, I would probably try to live with it as well. It would be quite disheartening if I see it after investing time and money.

I totally hear you on that... I have probably the most strict QT procedure of anyone I've spoken to at length, including inverts/coral.

If ich was 100% identified in the system, would make QT a LOT easier. Basically as mentioned before trying to catch the quick killers like velvet.

It's even more annoying not knowing right now. If I didn't see the two tangs fighting and saw the scratching and marks, I'd go right to ich.

Also I've seen ich countless times, so I don't know that since it's my own tank that it's harder for me to say "Oh that's ich"...

 

[nuxx]

I think it has ich in it's gills and it's only reminded of it under stress.

Very possible... but how did it get there?

Maybe 4 weeks isn't long enough for copper? Maybe 3 months isn't long enough for fishless QT of inverts and coral? Maybe ich can be airborne far past the 6-7 feet thought before? Maybe it's much easier to transfer via human hands, even with washing and drying?

I would feed the fish well OP. I have never encountered ich with my current tank of fish but again I don't QT either so I'm sure it's possibly there. I just feed my fish well and regularly and so far no ich or anything associated with ich like flashing or cysts.

So yes, your fish can live with it.

They get fed very well haha

 

[skp]

Very possible... but how did it get there?

Maybe 4 weeks isn't long enough for copper? Maybe 3 months isn't long enough for fishless QT of inverts and coral? Maybe ich can be airborne far past the 6-7 feet thought before? Maybe it's much easier to transfer via human hands, even with washing and drying?




They get fed very well haha

I totally hear you on this. It's a lot of work to not know for sure. If it can be transferred through air that easily then it should be even easier to transfer through ttm when moving the wet fish right? How does copper work? If it is 0.5 parts per million then there is a chance that a theront doesn't come into contact with a copper molecule right? I've seen ich spread in a tank with copper and I've read threads of people treating with copper for 4 weeks and then dropping the copper level in the same qt and the Ich coming back.

I know you probably don't want to hear this but I would try the ttm and fallow period just to know for sure.

 

[alton]

Keep the Black remove the Regal. Problem should go away.

 

[nuxx]

I know you probably don't want to hear this but I would try the ttm and fallow period just to know for sure.

Not going to happen

Would rather keep my fish as stress free and well fed over tearing every down for 3 months and not really having a 100% guarantee it won't come back.

 

[nuxx]

Keep the Black remove the Regal. Problem should go away.

It is a pain in the ***, but it's one of the 3 fish we pretty much started with ages ago.

Was hoping more fish might slow him down a bit. If I actually seem him go crazy with aggression I'll remove him.

Most aggression is between the Black and Yellow Tangs.

 

[CStrickland]

Maybe 4 weeks isn't long enough for copper? Maybe 3 months isn't long enough for fishless QT of inverts and coral? Maybe ich can be airborne far past the 6-7 feet thought before? Maybe it's much easier to transfer via human hands, even with washing and drying?

Maybe an angry ex is sneaking in at night and dropping tomonts in your tank? Maybe the gov't is putting ich in chemtrails?
:lolspin:

 

[nuxx]

Maybe an angry ex is sneaking in at night and dropping tomonts in your tank? Maybe the gov't is putting ich in chemtrails?
:lolspin:

 

[btb72]

I've always thought you had to qt for the full 76 days to make sure all the ich has gone through its cycle. I know you said you do that for the frags but why only 6 weeks and a day for fish? (I think you said 4 weeks plus 15 days)

 

[nuxx]

I've always thought you had to qt for the full 76 days to make sure all the ich has gone through its cycle. I know you said you do that for the frags but why only 6 weeks and a day for fish? (I think you said 4 weeks plus 15 days)

From pretty much everything I've read, Cupramine is effective over 4 weeks.

 

[Buzz1329]

I live with it in my tank and it hasn't been an issue for me in several years. That said, I avoid fish like Hippos and powders that are known to be very sensitive to it.

FWIW, you're not the only one I know that has experienced this same scenario. I will just leave it at that.

Hi, I'm Mike and I too have fish that have survived ich in my tank. I had an ich outbreak early on in my 180. Lost a few fish, but most survived. I did NOT remove survivors from tank to QT to let tank lie fallow for 72 days because I could not possibly remove them without tearing down tank. Since then, knock on wood, no ich -- even with a Purple Tang that showed spots and was scraping rocks for a while. It has been in tip top condition now for more than two years.

Go figure.

Mike