"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

[poknsnok]

I have lost exactly 1 fish NOT using qt practices. that said I believe QT is the best method to ensure long term health and protect the existing inhabitants. Because I didnt QT I introduced ich to my tank.
I have lost ALL the fish i have attempted to qt. I used a seeded sponge filter in a 20 with water from the main display. I had 2 fairy wrasses that i was qting. not a big bioload. I changed 5 gal daily from the main display but developed elevated ammonia anyway and lost the fish. That said i will never NOT QT again. I have lost my 4 yr old regal tang to it and the crypt is still in the tank and will be until i remove all the fish. Not worth the risk, in hindsight. I have never tried hypo.. so it was uneducated of me to say it was hard on the fish. i would like to ask again how many use hypo as thier regular QT regiment

 

[Mish]

I'm a new-b and I am currently 4 weeks into the hypo treatment. I do see stress in my fish as well as bahavioral changes, and such. I can't say it is do to the hypo, I feel it is more do to dailiy water changes, cramped tanks, and less than perfect water quality.

Just my thoughts...

 

[Triggerfish]

OK folks its been 5 weeks in hypo now and i plan on adding a bit of salt to the water tonight..

big anticipation here hoping this will be the end of the 10 month battle. i just don't know..haven't really seen anything for the duration. but again, it's impossible to be certain.

my coral beauty seems a bit stressed and not sure what the cause could be besides the hypo, but who the heck would know for sure.

a side note..i found both my missing firefish, they must have been keeping some deep shelter to avoid the killer trigger, which has since been removed.

 

[guitarfish]

You don't really mean add salt to the water, right? Just checking.

 

[Triggerfish]

well,,no not pouring the salt directly from the bucket into the tank,,,

 

[guitarfish]

I figured...just had to ask. I actually use water from my display, which kills two birds with one stone (or two fish with one hook?) It raises the SG in QT with aged water, and forces me to do a water change in the display.

 

[Triggerfish]

i will be adding water to the display as the hypo was done in the display tank..
sort of wish it wasn't..but it's done now.

 

[jeffbrig]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7004384#post7004384 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by guitarfish
I actually use water from my display....

forces me to do a water change in the display.

I know what you mean. Other than the occasional syphoning, all of my display's water changes have been the result of needing water for the QT.

 

[AquAsylum]

It's been awhile, so I thought I should report back in, lest anyone think I had given up.

Quick recap- ich took over our 120 after introducing non QT fish from Marine depot last June. A rigorously followed hypo schedule did not cure the ich (8 weeks hypo, tank fallow for 11). I did not want to do copper, so I chose to go for the "keep fish strong and healthy and see what happens" approach.

I am pleased to report that it seems to be working. Yes, the hippo still shows spots now and then, but s/he is very active, of good weight, and the only fish that ever has evidence of ich. The clown goby seems to have developed anorexia after the whole deal. Perhaps bulemia as he eats all the time but stays very thin (no other sign of an internal parasite and he is still quite active and upbeat). We have added three fish that were fully quarantined for 6 weeks and they have not shown any signs of ich after over a month in the display. No fatalities since the fish were transferred from qt/hypo to display. Not one.

Our only challenge remaining is the hair algae. I really wasn't doing much to fight it until I recently got the urge to try some corals again. No point in adding coral if the hair will just suffocate it, so I need to eradicate the algae quickly. We have 8 urchins who do a good job, but just can't keep up. I added 100 non QT dwarf red legged hermits, and they are damn impressive. They have their work cut out for them, but rock by rock, the tank is becoming spotless. I didn't QT the crabs because I know they came from a no-fish system. I have also swapped my sun bulb for a 2nd blue actinic to retard the growth of the algae. I know this paragraph is for another thread, but that's my current situation.

Quite a bit to read- I'll try to catch up with everyone's progress.

 

[guyguerra]

Well,I haven't posted here in over two weeks. The day after my last post I bought a mystery wrasse and put him in my 50 gallon tank. he showed Ich the next day. Within 3 days they were all flashing, particularly the Sailfin. I didn't want to strip the tank down and treat them, so I tried No Sick Fish. I can't believe I am posting this, but I believe I had success. I lost the gobies and Longnose right away, but the Longnose was weak from the start. I did the 1 week program. It has now been two weeks and the remaining fish, Sailfin, Clown Wrasse and Mystery Wrasse are spotless and have stopped scratching completely. I used garlic also. I will never know if it was th No Sick Fish, or just that these were hardy. Now I have Ich in my 230 gallon display. It's not bad, and the guy's at the LFS who stop by once a week or so felt that I had slight signs of it before, so I'll never know if I've had it and it is just showing up. I added two helfrich's firefish without QT because they were expensive and I felt that they were a safe fish. I also added some macro algae that I got from my LFS that was in a tank with fish. I felt stupid for doing that. I rinsed it well and dipped it in plain water before putting it in the tank. So, somehow, I finally have it in my display. I'm not very worried, and believe my fish will be fine. There are two clowns that have shown a few spots, a Kole Tang (that's the one my buddy at the LFS noticed a couple of spots on before) and my Copperband ( my favorite and the avatar that I use). They are not acting unusual and there are no symptoms. I decided to use No Sick Fish on this tank now. There are really no other alternatives. I am starting to side with the guy's that say we always have it in our tanks, and it's a matter of keeping your fish healthy. How I got is is very hard to tell, and how long I've had it is impossible to say. It's obvious that it will always be in the tank, which bugs me, but I can't get the fish out, nor would I if I could. I believe that would cause me to loose some fish. Theres to many corals to do anything, so NSF is what I'm going to try. I believe it might have worked in my 50 gallon tank. If so that would be one success among many failures with this product. It's obvious that my quest for an ich free tank is over.

 

[poknsnok]

I just recently lost my 3yr old regal tang to ich and have seen signs of in my tank since introducing 4 anthias without qt. I had no signs of ich in my tank for 3 yrs brfore that.
I dont believe ich is always present. I believe I introduced it to my tank. A very respected LFS operator in this area seems to subscribe to the theory it is always present. but in theory if you have a tank with no fish in it for 3 months the crypt life cycle will be broken and you will have an ich free tank. Does anyone disagree with that?

 

[plaz]

I disagree with your LFS but agree with the cycle break/ich free tank. I know I have been lucky with this... but my tank still appears to be ich free with 2 Blues and a Yellow Tang that were the original inhabitants (10 or so months now?). Since the ich was cured and the tank was fallowed for 3 months, I have QT'd EVERYTHING including frags and snails for at least a month. I use NO Treatment unless needed. I just watch the fish in case they have any signs at all. If I haven't been around enough to feel I have watched closely enough, I add to the time. I'm always still paranoid when I add the items to the tank, but so far no problems.

I've had 3 temp dips when power went out and a couple of dumb things I've done with the kalk additions that would have stressed the fish. They didn't seem happy then, but didn't get any specs at all! So, I firmly believe it does not exist unless it is introduced.

 

[guitarfish]

There was a time when people believed flies came from rotting meat.

Ich doesn't appear out of nowhere, and it certainly must be introduced. I've had an ich-free tank for well over a year and a half now.

 

[Triggerfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7028289#post7028289 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by guyguerra
I am starting to side with the guy's that say we always have it in our tanks, and it's a matter of keeping your fish healthy.

here is what i believe the deal is with this:

there are living things that were created and they reside somewhere on this planet. for example a sailfin tang was created and it resides in some of the worlds oceans. in order for your aquarium to contain a sailfin, you would need to remove one from its natural habitat and place it in your tank.
now your tank contains a sailfin tang, it just didn't show up there.

i believe this example holds true for obligate ectoparasites (c.irritans). I do not believe they can just grow externally from a fish, or just magically appear from nowhere, they must be introduced to your tank from an outside source that contained the parasite. internal parasites, perhaps can just harvest within a fish's body under favorable conditions (i don't know this is beyond my studies).

i just cannot seem to rationalize the 'keep fish healthy and the parasite will behave" theory. i mean *** is that. it's there or it's not. true,,fish that are in optimal condition as well as being less susceptible(non-tang) have a far better chance of keeping infections reduced. BUT, no guarantee,, 1st hand experience here with my Asfur Angel.

if the c.irritan parasite could manifest itself from within a fish or the water column without first being introduced from an outside source, then that would be the only scientific explanation i could think of regarding how it can and does exist in all systems.
basically a stressor of some type, temp drop for example, occurs and boom the ich comes to life and attaches to a fish, sounds a bit absurd, no?

now if you're talking about once the parasite has been introduced and you believe it cannot be eradicated and will 'always be there',,that's an entirely different situation.

perhaps further studies are needed. i don't know, i can only seem to go by what i read and understand.
i've been battling this for 11 months and cannot seem to get rid of it yet. and i still believe an 'ich free tank' can exist.

 

[chocolates mom]

This is my experience with No Sick Fish. Got a Coral Beauty, used the NSF and he was dead in a week and a half. I was told to wait 6 weeks before adding another fish. 6 weeks later I added another Coral Beauty,(he had ick when I got him home), used no sick fish and he was on the bottom on the tank in 7 days and died the next. Two weeks later my Perculas Clowns now have ick. The store that sold me No Sick Fish is using it in their tanks, last time I went in 5 of their tanks had ick. I have been madly reading posts on this site and found a new store that treats their fish with Cuperamine when they come in. I am in the process of starting up a guarantine tank and have decided to treat my fish with Cuparmine when I get them. I will post as things proceed, wish me luck!

 

[Triggerfish]

good luck

 

[poknsnok]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7032043#post7032043 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chocolates mom
. I am in the process of starting up a guarantine tank and have decided to treat my fish with Cuparmine when I get them. I will post as things proceed, wish me luck!

I would NEVER treat a fish unless it is ill. To use a copper based treatment as part of your QT routine is very very stressful on the fish. Remember the copper in cupramine is poison to the fish as well as the ich.Quarantine is just that, quarantine. Keeping the fish away from the main tank to determine if it has any pathogens. If ich or anything else shows up, then treat

 

[Triggerfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7032825#post7032825 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by poknsnok
If ich or anything else shows up, then treat

perhaps quarantining with a full copper treatment is not the best approach.
I plan to pretreat with hypo for 4 weeks and may even keep like a 1/4 dosage of copper in there as well.

just b/c you cannot actually notice the ich,,is by no means 100% guarantee it aint there. pretreating is added diligence.

 

[guitarfish]

This morning I drained my QT (it was empty, not running), and cleaned and dried it. I'm in the process of making makeup water for my display today. My plan is to have the QT running with aged display tank water by tonight. I also have a filter pad from the display sump that I'm going to use.

The LFS is holding a cute little wrasse for me. I don't recall the exact name of it, but I'll be picking it up Monday. I plan to do copper for 10 days and see how he looks. Wish me well!

My last effort ended with a fried coral beauty because my heater got stuck on. I replaced it with two smaller heaters. So, here we go again...

 

[chocolates mom]

I think you misunderstood, the Perculas in my main tank have ick.