"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins
- Thread starter Triggerfish
- Start date
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jimmyj7090
aka John K
Guy,
Thanks, but I'm not patting myself on the back yet, if all is well in a month or two I declare victory, until then I'm holding my breath.
Guitar, thanks for the offer. I'll send you a couple of pics when I get a chance to get on someone else's computer, I really do have a beautiful reef tank but I'm still on dial up, don't figure?
happy thanksgiving to all
jk
Thanks, but I'm not patting myself on the back yet, if all is well in a month or two I declare victory, until then I'm holding my breath.
Guitar, thanks for the offer. I'll send you a couple of pics when I get a chance to get on someone else's computer, I really do have a beautiful reef tank but I'm still on dial up, don't figure?
happy thanksgiving to all
jk
guitarfish
Premium Member
ARGHHH!!!
My Coral Beauty, in hypo for a couple weeks, had one ich spot, which fell off a week ago. Great. This might actually be easy. NOT! I come home tonight, there's 5 or 6 new spots on her. This would indicate that not all the ich in the tank is on the same lifecycle schedule, otherwise it would only be seen about every 3 weeks or so.
So, this means I have to wait until all these new spots fall off, which will take about a week, and then start my count over, again.
THE WAIT IS KILLING ME!
I may actually have to go buy a new guitar amplifier to ease my pain. :lol:
Triggerfish
Active member
it's very doubtful that each and every cyst will rupture the same day,,as a result, trophonts will be visible at differing times throughout the month.
it could also indicate that some of the tomonts are surviving the hypo treatment to release tomites.
another thing as well,,it could take many cycles for the treatment to fully eradicate all (if possible) tomonts.
i do believe based on what i have seen, that it certainly appears to reduce the parasite population,,but to fully blast them all could take some time.
good luck
it could also indicate that some of the tomonts are surviving the hypo treatment to release tomites.
another thing as well,,it could take many cycles for the treatment to fully eradicate all (if possible) tomonts.
i do believe based on what i have seen, that it certainly appears to reduce the parasite population,,but to fully blast them all could take some time.
good luck
Triggerfish
Active member
Ich Update:
This will be my last weekly update as things appear to have possibly somewhat leveled off.
Another week and the parasite population does not seem to have increased, again - possibly decreasing or becoming more selective with host choice.
Summary
>garlic - added to all food - possible positive effect
>cleaner gobies(2 noticed) actively pick at fish throughout day - these fish are also infected.
>fish continue to feed readily and very active
>no deaths to date
>system currently has 17 fish
Action Plan:
>maintain water quality
>continue adding garlic to food
>try ginger root treatment
>possibly either fix my UV or get another and run with slow controlled flow
I will update on a monthly basis going forward.
the update will include any additional steps taken for either control or eradication and the observed results.
I will continue to battle; as such the "Quest" will continue on.
In the meantime, i am able to enjoy the tank in it's current state as there are no overt displays of disease symptoms - twitching, scratching, lethargy,loss of appetite or deaths that can be witnessed.
just a few whitespots that appear from time to time.
i'm not exactly sure what is prohibiting this thing from getting out of control as there are plenty of host fish. perhaps it is just the immune system that enables the fish to carry on with a (normal) existence with the parasite present.
Time certainly will tell what transpires here. Perhaps with a combination of anecdotal treatments and hopefully some luck in the possible fact cells do age and die, the Quest can be achieved sooner than later.
i look forward to hearing the progress of others and continue to wish everyone luck in the hobby.
This will be my last weekly update as things appear to have possibly somewhat leveled off.
Another week and the parasite population does not seem to have increased, again - possibly decreasing or becoming more selective with host choice.
Summary
>garlic - added to all food - possible positive effect
>cleaner gobies(2 noticed) actively pick at fish throughout day - these fish are also infected.
>fish continue to feed readily and very active
>no deaths to date
>system currently has 17 fish
Action Plan:
>maintain water quality
>continue adding garlic to food
>try ginger root treatment
>possibly either fix my UV or get another and run with slow controlled flow
I will update on a monthly basis going forward.
the update will include any additional steps taken for either control or eradication and the observed results.
I will continue to battle; as such the "Quest" will continue on.
In the meantime, i am able to enjoy the tank in it's current state as there are no overt displays of disease symptoms - twitching, scratching, lethargy,loss of appetite or deaths that can be witnessed.
just a few whitespots that appear from time to time.
i'm not exactly sure what is prohibiting this thing from getting out of control as there are plenty of host fish. perhaps it is just the immune system that enables the fish to carry on with a (normal) existence with the parasite present.
Time certainly will tell what transpires here. Perhaps with a combination of anecdotal treatments and hopefully some luck in the possible fact cells do age and die, the Quest can be achieved sooner than later.
i look forward to hearing the progress of others and continue to wish everyone luck in the hobby.
guyguerra
Premium Member
I almost took offence to the following statement, but knew it wasn't meant as a slam. This thread has a lot of good integrity, and we are all commonly searching for ways to have Ich Free tanks. I believe Ich can survive hypo, and do not have as much faith as others in it's use:
4 weeks into treatment I noticed that my tang was showing skin irritation, so stopped the treatment earlier than 6 weeks, but I don't see the need to go six weeks, and Seachem only recommends 2 weeks. The irritation cleared up quickly. I will not use hypo again. I've grown to believe a quick copper treatment is better than the inconsistent treatment of hyposalinity, unless, of coarse, other factors do not permit the use of copper.
My hypo treatments were disappointing. As an alternative, I treated my latest group with Cupramine. The treatment was fast, and Ich disappeared within a week. Nor did I mess with garlic, or any other wives tales. I started that group October 12th, and today, added them to my display. They are ich free and healthy, and I didn't have to mess with it daily. To me Cupramine is quick, fairly simple and does the job right the first time. Guitarfish, I'm sorry to hear about your set back.
4 weeks into treatment I noticed that my tang was showing skin irritation, so stopped the treatment earlier than 6 weeks, but I don't see the need to go six weeks, and Seachem only recommends 2 weeks. The irritation cleared up quickly. I will not use hypo again. I've grown to believe a quick copper treatment is better than the inconsistent treatment of hyposalinity, unless, of coarse, other factors do not permit the use of copper.
kimoyo
Active member
I think hypo is hard because of evaporation especially in smaller tanks.guyguerra said:
Why would you need to do copper for 6 weeks? I know that some say 21 days and seachem says 14 days but if trophonts last only 3-7 days wouldn't the copper work in 14 days. Once the parasite is free swimming it couldn't last in the copper I would think. And if you just set up your quarantine so you know there was no ich present then there shouldn't be any tomonts in the tank when you put the fish in. But even if there were, when the theronts hatched there would still be copper in there to kill them. So as long as you have kept the same copper level when you removed the fish you should be good correct?
Are there any concerns about transferring copper over to the display when you reintroduce the fish.
guyguerra
Premium Member
Paul, you'r correct that copper isn't needed for 6 weeks. This goes back to my first bout with the dreaded Ich, which I didn't do well with. The Ich cleared up quickly with copper this time, but there was the spot on the Tang that I wasn't 100% sure wasn't Ich. Then I realized it was a skin irritation of some kind. I pulled the copper out for over a week to make sure they were Ich free, and they were. By doing this, I didn't have to worry about possibly putting any copper in my display while transferring the fish. They all look great in the display, and my Kole tang is eating up all the nuisance algae! In the future, I'll plan on two weeks of Cupramine instead of longer.
As to increased salinity due to evaporation in small tanks, it might be a possibility, but I treated mine in a 120 gallon tank, and know for a fact that the salinity was constant at 11ppt. I'll just never be a fan of hypo salinity.
As to increased salinity due to evaporation in small tanks, it might be a possibility, but I treated mine in a 120 gallon tank, and know for a fact that the salinity was constant at 11ppt. I'll just never be a fan of hypo salinity.
guitarfish
Premium Member
That must have been a BRUTAL amount of work in 120g !!! Wow.
guyguerra
Premium Member
I din't have a QT, and I was worried about the additional stress of moving the fish. I had 3 butterfly's, a foxface, hawkfish, 2 clowns, royal gramma, hippo tang and felt that even if I could set up a QT the instant bio load would have done them in. It was a tough way to learn about treating Ich. I learned a lot though, and had a lot of good advice on this BB. What a great website this is. A wealth of knowledge and a lot of nice people.
I have ich as well right now in my 3gal on a small clown. I gave him FW dip and most of it wasnt visable on the body. Now he is just hiding on the rocks breathing very fast and looks as if his left out is a little bunged up. There isnt much I can do so if this poor little guy doesn't make it what should with the tank after the only fish dies? (To get rid of ich that is)
jimmyj7090
aka John K
"LOL...wow..we're gathering so much info on this thread that some of us are at the point of being able to create new ich c.irritan strains.. although not sure if we need additional ones,,... you have a name for it yet...how bout the
c. guyguerra irritan strain"
When I read that at first I took it as nasty. I saw the second post with that quote the same statement and It made me realize it was probablly not meant offensively at all. It's tough, the internet is so annyonomous that we can insult each other in an attempt to agree and share humor......
I agree that this thread has been long and unusually civil. I LOVE THAT, it actually helps us gain from others experiences....
Personally I'm pretty into the idea of picking a treatment and following it 100%, maybe even pushing the limits of it (extra time, slightly exaggerated levels of the treatment intervention)
My treatment update:
I just finished my 7 week hypo treatment at 1.008, tansitioned the fish back to 1.024 over a week, then kept in observation for 2 weeks. The fish have been back in the display for a week (was kept fishless for 12 weeks) now and show no sins of problems.. (3 weeks at 1.024 now). I returned a CBB, 6-line, T.Perc pair, Maroon pair, Bi-color blenny, and PBT to my 120.
Good luck to all, (I won't feel lucky until I go about 8 weeks NSG and see no spots).
jk
c. guyguerra irritan strain"
When I read that at first I took it as nasty. I saw the second post with that quote the same statement and It made me realize it was probablly not meant offensively at all. It's tough, the internet is so annyonomous that we can insult each other in an attempt to agree and share humor......
I agree that this thread has been long and unusually civil. I LOVE THAT, it actually helps us gain from others experiences....
Personally I'm pretty into the idea of picking a treatment and following it 100%, maybe even pushing the limits of it (extra time, slightly exaggerated levels of the treatment intervention)
My treatment update:
I just finished my 7 week hypo treatment at 1.008, tansitioned the fish back to 1.024 over a week, then kept in observation for 2 weeks. The fish have been back in the display for a week (was kept fishless for 12 weeks) now and show no sins of problems.. (3 weeks at 1.024 now). I returned a CBB, 6-line, T.Perc pair, Maroon pair, Bi-color blenny, and PBT to my 120.
Good luck to all, (I won't feel lucky until I go about 8 weeks NSG and see no spots).
jk
guyguerra
Premium Member
Jimmy, I know how you feel. I won't really feel 100% until this group I just treated are in the display for a while, but my wife made a good comment (since I'm a chronic worrier). She said it's too late, you made your decision, you are probably right, and theres nothing you can do about it now. That helped a lot. Now I only inspect them every two hours. LOL. It sounds like you did a thorough job and will be fine. I do agree that communicating this way can lead to misunderstandings.
Demiles, you'll find many posts here stating that dipping is not enough to eradicate the Ich parasite. The parasite is under the fishes skin and protected from whatever you use for the dip. What other method are you using to treat your clown? Is a 3 gallon tank large enough to keep your water parameters steady?
Demiles, you'll find many posts here stating that dipping is not enough to eradicate the Ich parasite. The parasite is under the fishes skin and protected from whatever you use for the dip. What other method are you using to treat your clown? Is a 3 gallon tank large enough to keep your water parameters steady?
Triggerfish
Active member
jimmyj7090 said:
think about it,,why would i insult an active participant with similiar views on this thread that i started???????
Triggerfish
Active member
dmiles11 said:
3g huh... well not sure what else ya got, but if no inverts you could just hypo the fish right in there.
if the fish dies,,yes you would just clean the system out and start over..
jimmyj7090
aka John K
"think about it,,why would i insult an active participant with similiar views on this thread that i started???????"
I didn't mean to insinuate that you did, I was just trying to post so that it wouldn't sound offensive to anyone
That gets hard sometimes, it's so easy to offend someone by accident when posting.
I don't think there was ever a problem, I was just concerned that somehow one might start by accident.
Anyway.....
My fish are still looking good, but I'm still holding my breath.
jk
I didn't mean to insinuate that you did, I was just trying to post so that it wouldn't sound offensive to anyone
That gets hard sometimes, it's so easy to offend someone by accident when posting.
I don't think there was ever a problem, I was just concerned that somehow one might start by accident.
Anyway.....
My fish are still looking good, but I'm still holding my breath.
jk
Triggerfish
Active member
sounds good jk.... looks like your on your way...biggest thing for you now is to ensure the damn thing never makes its way back in.
guitarfish
Premium Member
Last night I was looking at my coral beauty, who is in hypo. He's got 15-20 spots on him, it's early in the treatment.
Then I looked at my display - only three fish in there, but all healthy and happy, and not a spot of ich anywhere in there for over a year.
As much as I want to add more fish to the display, it will always be worth it to me to make sure they're clean first. An ich infected fish is not a happy sight!
Then I looked at my display - only three fish in there, but all healthy and happy, and not a spot of ich anywhere in there for over a year.
As much as I want to add more fish to the display, it will always be worth it to me to make sure they're clean first. An ich infected fish is not a happy sight!
jimmyj7090
aka John K
"biggest thing for you now is to ensure the damn thing never makes its way back in. " (again)
I hear that. At this point I'm not planning to add any fish for a long time....
If/when I do, they will go through a very serious QT/screening process.
Good luck to all in the quest, and to myself too. I figure around Febuary I can stop holding my breath... til then, wish me luck.
jk
I hear that. At this point I'm not planning to add any fish for a long time....
If/when I do, they will go through a very serious QT/screening process.
Good luck to all in the quest, and to myself too. I figure around Febuary I can stop holding my breath... til then, wish me luck.
jk
markrovner
Premium Member
First of all, profound thanks to all who have made this online journal an amazing resource. I have ready every single post -- this should be pinned!
I am a new member of the ich-inflicted, and I have to say, having shared your collective experience, I am planning to go straight to Cupramine. As I read it, only one of you had a successful experience with Hypo, and all of you who tried it seem to have taken leaves from your work so you can watch the QT tank every minute of the day.
Please don;t take me wrong -- I've been back in the hobby a couple of months, and my wife now considers herself a "reef widow" -- so i am not exactly taking the lazy man's approach to all this. But the work you all put in to keeping the tank at precisely 1.009 blows my mind. I admire you for it. I just can't though -- especially given your collective track record at getting a good result.
So... having read the posts, and many of the articles to which you all helpfully linked -- i am a new convert to quarantine, I will pour my bottle of kick-ich down the drain, Hypo is for people with monumental amounts of time, and copper -- carefully monitored and responsibly used -- seems to work.
Admittedly subjective, but those are my take-aways. I'll post my results...
Thanks again, all!
I am a new member of the ich-inflicted, and I have to say, having shared your collective experience, I am planning to go straight to Cupramine. As I read it, only one of you had a successful experience with Hypo, and all of you who tried it seem to have taken leaves from your work so you can watch the QT tank every minute of the day.
Please don;t take me wrong -- I've been back in the hobby a couple of months, and my wife now considers herself a "reef widow" -- so i am not exactly taking the lazy man's approach to all this. But the work you all put in to keeping the tank at precisely 1.009 blows my mind. I admire you for it. I just can't though -- especially given your collective track record at getting a good result.
So... having read the posts, and many of the articles to which you all helpfully linked -- i am a new convert to quarantine, I will pour my bottle of kick-ich down the drain, Hypo is for people with monumental amounts of time, and copper -- carefully monitored and responsibly used -- seems to work.
Admittedly subjective, but those are my take-aways. I'll post my results...
Thanks again, all!
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