"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

[markcasto]

Still dealing with ammonia now in the 20gallon tank.I found out that amquel+ takes 40ml to treat the 52 gallon tank but seachems ammonia remover called "prime" will treat a 50 gallon tank with just 5ml.

Thats much better value so I will buy some tomorrow and let you know how I get on with it.I don't really like the amquel very much it stinks and is very slow to work and my tang had a very bad reaction to it last week.

 

[Triggerfish]

wow,,what a difference in products.
ya,remember you mentioned the reaction..scary.

i think if you could find a 2nd hand 50-55 for sale and have the room to run it continously, that would be a better option.
just in case you need to treat multiple fish together. you could use the 20g for single fish disease issues.

you could hold off feeding for a couple days to reduce waste accumulation.

 

[markcasto]

It would be nice to have another 55 tank but I just don't have the room for it and I am sure if I had some filter sponges in my main tank ready to go I would be ok with the ammonia levels.I am pleased that my two large tangs are feeding well though.Have held back on some of my feeding in the QT but the tangs are eating everthing a give them so thats great.


Having them in QT tank has really helped in getting one of them fed up well, its stomach was pinched in and it was not eating but after only a week and a bit in the QT it is feeding from my hand!I don't think that would have happened in the main tank so that is another plus to all this.

I have also noticed in my main tank that the bristle worms are coming out during the day.So I made a trap from an old film cannister, put a small hole in the end and put some fish in there as bait. I caught one straight away so hopefully I can use this time with out fish to pull out some more of them.
Heres a pic looking into the refractometer its a bit blurry but you can see the clear line between the blue and white pointing at 1.009

 

[Triggerfish]

yup..see the line..looks spot on.

btw: brissle worms no good? thought they were ok to stir the substrate..have some in my fuge,,should i get them out?

 

[cduran02]

Brissle worms are fine, they eat dead stuff in the substrate. They get a bad rep when some catches them eating one of their snails, shrimp, or fish. But what they fail to realize is that the animal they are eating were probably dead to begin with and the worm is just doing its job.

But sometimes they get really big and become an eye sore.

 

[markcasto]

Well heres bob finners view point on bristle worms but I don't like them so I trap them and get rid of as many as I can while my tank is fallow for 6 weeks.

Question: I am fairly new at this salt water side of the hobby. I am wondering how much of a problem bristleworms are. I noticed one or two in the live rock I purchased nearly a year ago, and have been noticing more and more ever since. I purchased one of those cheap plastic trap gizmos and have yet to trap a worm. I seem to have better luck with tweezers or scissors. The last one I saw was too large to fit even the trap. I have a large carpet anemone which doesn't seem bothered by them, but everything I hear about them says they feed on invertebrates. I want to start adding corals, but not if these worms are just going to consume them. Do I really need to be concerned? Is there anything that feeds on bristleworms? Am I doing something wrong that is helping them proliferate? Thanks for any help.

Bob's Answer: All good questions and concerns: For one, there are many polychaetes called bristleworms. Two, most are innocuous, a few desirable... as food, sifters and movers of material... Three, most will not, do not harm corals or other desirable livestock. Four, yes there are many animals that eat these ubiquitous marine worms. Some of the butterflyfishes, gobies, triggers, wrasses, some shrimp and tangs notably... of course they must fit in with your other livestock... Fifthly, you are probably doing little to cause, but a great deal to allow them to proliferate. Lack of predators and competitors in a necessarily unnatural setting (small marine volume of macrobiotic life), feeding (perhaps excessively... but hard to manipulate...), but very often, worm and other invertebrate pop. growth problems just work themselves out over time. I wouldn't go overt in efforts to eliminate all of these critters unless they become an obvious problem. Then I would go the bio- predatory route.

 

[Triggerfish]

WEEK 2 UPDATE

WEEK 2 UPDATE

well,,things are not looking good for my target date for display tank transfer.
Ich has shown up on 3/6 fish in the QT. very very small outbreak..basically 1 spot per fish..but it's there nonetheless.

I think the primary issue i have here is that i cannot be sure of the specific gravity level within the QT by using the swing arm device. apparently even 1.010 will not be effective, so it needs to be pretty darn accurate. i figured swing arm was measuring low by about .003 an have compensated for that. but, unless i can be 99% certain, i cannot continue with the treatment in an effecive manner.

As a result of this, I will need to get a refractometer. cannot keep cutting corners,,there is no way around doing things the right way in this hobby.
i may look to get this unit that is currently on sale for $43.

i got to get that 2nd job,,but in the meantime i may need to start playing poker again to fund this hobby..

 

[tjay]

That is a good deal on that. It appears to be the same model I got.
I paid 70 bucks for mine.

I had to buy it at the LFS instead of online. I have not seen a single sign of ich since the fresh water bath and transfer to hypo. So there may be some merit to that exact .09 number. Of course the fish that was really infected died within 12 hours of hitting the QT.
He barely made the fresh water dip.

Sorry to hear about your delay. Are the fish going to pull through or is it too early to tell?

The fish in my QT are eating me out of house and home. I am not over feeding because they clean up every little drop within minutes of it hitting the tank. Including the CBB and they are supposed to be hard to get eating.

One trick I learned locally was to put romaine lettuce in the tank the tangs love it and keep their bellies full.

 

[Triggerfish]

ya..going to order it monday..possible small group order so price may be a bit less. ordering from premium aquatics.

oh ya..fish are doing fine..like i said 1-2 spots have been showing up..so it's likely that the level is very low and hopefully diminishing due to low (undeterminable as of yet) SG.

i've been spending alot of time reading through the Ich archives on this site..just trying to figure out all the loop holes where folks have not been able to effectively eradicate the parasite from their systems.
also going over Terry B's in depth five part article.
great reading

 

[markcasto]

I know you wont regret buying one they are spot on with the readings and at least you will know that your salinity is just right.Also when you have to start adding salt to bring it up again you can be sure your getting it right.

My fish are eating like pigs! I am running out of flake and seaweed every drop is gone in minutes.So far have not seen any more ich but I will keep a sharp eye on it.

 

[tjay]

Trigger what have you found that is different from what we have in our plan?
I was looking at the life cycle myself and I understand why the say 6 weeks to be sure in the main tank. It does seem to me that if you go into low salinity and this stops the parasite from forming the little cysts that explode with new free swimmers that the need to worry about re infestation would mean the time in QT is less than that. I am not taking chances since the main has to remain fallow. I am just wondering when I can start slowly raising the salinity in the QT.
then again, the fish seem very happy so there is no rush.
Do you have a link to the 5 part article, I am wondering if it is the same one I read?

I do know this, I am not looking for short cuts but I am looking for anything that might make this fail. I really don't want to learn this lesson twice.

Mark how in the heck did you get a picture of the meter readings?

 

[markcasto]

lol... I just used my mobile phone and aimed the camera lens down the refrectometer.

On the subject of putting the fish back, I was wondering if my flame angel should go back on week 5 as he just will not eat anything I offer him. He has not had any ich on him since going in the QT and I am not sure how long he will last if he doesnt eat anything.Having said that he seems to be active and healthy.

 

[Triggerfish]

yes,,i think it will be a good item to have for all intended purposes, but a necessity for proper treatment.

Trigger what have you found that is different from what we have in our plan?
I am just wondering when I can start slowly raising the salinity in the QT.

so far what i have gathered was it seems the primary reason the parasite was not erradicated was from lack of proper duration of both treatment methods (copper, hypo).
there are so many threads on the subject in the archives - leaves no doubt it is the #1 issue probably 90% of fishkeepers have had to deal with at one time or another.

as to when could be an appropriate time to begin to stop the hypo treatment is probably one of the biggest questions??
you're right,,from what i have read, "the hypo therapy works by interrupting the life cycle at the tomont stage. they are destroyed by the hypo conditions,,thus preventing re-infection"
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/mini3.htm

it states that the treatment should continue for a minimum of three weeks. so it appears that if you have not seen any sign of the parasite and have ensured that your treatment has been spot on, then basically i guess it is saying you can begin to raise the SG. perhaps then you could still observe them for an additional 2 weeks for added security.

now there have been some strains of the parasite that are more tolerant to lower sg levels..just be hopeful neither of us are dealing with any of those.:eek1:

the 5 part series can be found here..last post.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=282934

mark- i would say that as long as the main tank has been fallow for 6 weeks then it appears the fish should be good to go..
looking forward to hearing of your progress..

 

[cduran02]

I was originally going to go with hypo, but after reading about strains that may be imune to hypo I decided to go with copper. Everything I have read about copper says it the most sure way (as well as the most dangerous) and I didnt want to take any chances.

Im at 7 weeks 3 days of QT, no signs of ich since I completed copper treatment about 5 weeks ago. Just a few more days of QT. This better do the trick. I believe that the regular water changes you do on the display tank while its fallow should also help a bit in reducing some of the parasite.

 

[markcasto]

Some info on two products I have just used to reduce ammonia and boost the bio filter during QT.

I tryed Seachems Prime and Stabilise, one for treating ammonia and nitrite the other to boast the bio filter.I am most impressed by them both readings today when tested after only using 5ml of Prime were at 0mg for ammonia, great. One 5ml capful treated my 52 gallon tank overnight compare that with two 40ml of amquel which never got it down past 0.25.
I have been testing twice daily for 2 weeks now and that result was a winner in my books.

Plus my tangs didnt react in any way to the treatment like they did with amquel+.Hopefully the bio filter booster will do its job and get the bacteria working on that ammonia.

 

[Triggerfish]

Im at 7 weeks 3 days of QT, no signs of ich since I completed copper treatment about 5 weeks ago.

i am sort of thinking that if you did in fact have one of those rare strains,,i think their rare, that it probably would surface again within the 6 week treatment.. just guessing here though..
that's why it is so important to be spot on with the sg level during the entire treatment. i am going to even drop it a notch in case of possible fluctuations that may occur.

upon my readings, i have noticed that the recommended copper treatment should not be less than 3 weeks. sounds like you did two. i wish you luck..


that's good to hear that the amm appears to be in check now..sounds like a much better product..


btw: i added a bta to the tank today..it is about 1/2 the size of my jumbo clown,,but maybe he can squeeze into it.

 

[tjay]

I really thought about the copper. But after all the reading I just could not find evidence that copper was any easier on the fish than hypo and I hate chemicals.

 

[tjay]

I really want to cure some live rock before end of fallow. This has most likely been asked a hundred times but seems like this is getting to be a comfortable place to chat since we are all facing the same challenge.

Who do you guys like for ordering a box of rock?

 

[Triggerfish]

i believe most of the "authorities" on the subject, recommend hypo over copper. at least that is what i am finding..

 

[Triggerfish]

your best option for that is do a search to see who folks are going with.. go for the lighter porous rock.

i try to get mine from folks selling from the local reefers club for about $2-$3/lb..that's where i got the 40# for 80 bucks that i believe the ich came in on...
still looking for another 60#'s or so...