"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

[markcasto]

Trigger-Yes I think that 6 weeks hypo might be better then 1 week to lower the salinity to 1.009 then holding it at that for four weeks.But I am not sure if the fish could handle it for longer and if the salinity could be lower then 1.009 for a six week period.6 weeks hypo after the last spot is gone would be better perhaps but if I had kept going at 1.009 for another 2 weeks mybe it would have been killed off but 4 weeks does not do it that much we know for sure.

 

[cduran02]

leebeca: I know theres still a risk, thats really my VERY last resort.

Plaz: Thank you for the offer, but unfortunately I've already tried with those when I first got the harlequin, and he simple ignored them. The harlequin has taken a liking to the sand sifting stars.

The shrimp eats two stars per month. So Ill just keep 2 stars in QT, mabe setup a display nano-cube (3 gal or so) just to QT the stars.

 

[Triggerfish]

UPDATE

UPDATE

Spots back on Angel.
On the 4th day back in the display, there are 3 visible spots - tail,bottom fin and side of body. i do not believe these to be sand..especially the one on the rear fin. they are bright white round spots.

Two options here
1. just go with the "chicken soup" method and maintain good water quality along with the ginger root therapy. Within 10-11 months the parasite strain may die out on its own.
IF the population does not get out of control. But, he may just contract more as each cycle continues like last time. I think 2 weeks should give a decent indication if it is getting worse,,which then i will remove him again along with the blenny.

2. Remove him and the blenny now and start over with copper treatment and leave tank fallow for 7-8 weeks.

i don't know..i can't imagine leaving this thing empty for 2 months.
but if the angel gets blasted like he did last time, i will be left with no other option in a reef tank to try and eradicate the parasite. i guess, i will just not have to really look at the tank all that much as that will hopefully reduce the urge to shortcut the situation.

 

[cduran02]

I was cleaning out my email box and found an old email I got from seachem tech support that I had not opened. It was during the time I was treating the fish for ich. The following is an excerp of that email.

"An option that you can use in the main tank if someone shows signs of parasites is a medicated food recipe. The recipe I recommend is 1 scoop of Focus (the scoop comes in the vial of Focus) to 1 scoop of Metronidazole (the same scoop comes in the vial of Metronidazole) per tablespoon of frozen food. Focus is a binding agent that will allow you to bind antibiotics to food and Metronidazole is an antibiotic effective against parasites. Completely submerse this mix of food with the antibiotics in Garlic Guard and refrigerate. This mix works best with frozen food. The previously mentioned recipe is also on the Garlic Guard label. Feed this medicated food mix multiple times a day for at least two weeks (preferably longer). You can find more info on these products at http://www.seachem.com. In this recipe you are using our Focus to bind antibiotics to food so they are not wandering in your water column. This is also the best way to treat diseased fish (by making sure they are actually getting the medication by ingesting it)."

This is actually the first time I hear of this antibiotic for fish. I may give it a try some time in the future if I aquire a fish that turns out to have ich. A proper experiment would be to treat the infected fish with this medication and keep it in QT for 6 to 8 weeks to see if there is a re-occurance.

 

[AquAsylum]

We will begin our hypo treatment tonight. We plan to transfer the fish using a FW dip as was suggested yesterday.

Can someone point me in the right direction for some education on the different medications? Our hippo is already showing signs of a secondary infection. It is white cottony but I can't tell if it is fungus, lymphocytis, or something else. I have seen Maracyn Two recommended, and Paraguard also. What about Maracyn? And what medications can be used simultaneously? I'm concerned that if I just pick one it could be for the wrong problem.

I have read a description of the intended uses for different medications but I still am hesitant to put all of my eggs in one basket.

 

[Triggerfish]

sounds like you may want to treat as a fungus from the sounds of it.. i believe you can treat with antibiotics and hypo simultaneously.

 

[AquAsylum]

I would like to treat with Maroxy and Maracyn Two. I have read that Mardel products can be used simultaneously. After that treatment, I will probably use melafix for healing, unless anyone recommends using the melafix also during the antibiotics.

Here is another thought...
What does everyone use for filtration on their hospital tanks during hypo? We have an aquaclear 3 stage power filter we are going to use, and I'm prepared for a lot of water changes since this thing will pretty much be starting its cycle with all of our fish. However, if you can't use carbon during the antibiotic treatment, how on earth does the tank stay non-toxic?

Our QT will be a 55, bare bottom. It will be home to 16 fish and I'm incredibly nervous. Everyone gets along great in the display tank but you never know what will happen in cramped quarters.
The crew:
yellow tang
hippo tang
royal gramma
orchid dottyback
6 green chromis
rusty glown goby
2 pink skunk clowns
1 yellow watchman goby
1 lawnmower blenny
1 painted fairy wrasse

All fish are small. The fairy wrasse is the largest at about 3 1/2" long.

 

[cduran02]

I use a plain old Aqua Clear HOT filter and perform water changes every 2 days. Once treatment is over I put the carbon back in.

 

[Triggerfish]

you will have some major NH3 issues to deal with there.
you should either have a few seeded filters available as well as products to reduce the NH3 and build the bio-filter.
i think markcasto found a couple of products that ended up working well for him...

 

[AquAsylum]

I just reread Steven Pro's article and he mentions keeping a filter pad in the sump. That doesn't entirely make sense to me as it would then come from the contaminated tank...

I set up the QT on saturday and have been adding Seachem stability. Also tossed in a squirt of brine shrimp to get things moving along. I'd love to know what has worked for others- I have amquel on hand and will buy just about anything else if I think it will help.

 

[tjay]

I have some very happy fish, and I cant help but wonder if that spot is NOT ich

 

[plaz]

That is a lot of fish - I wouldn't count on water changes. If you have to set it up/cycle quickly, bio-spira marine is great stuff(refrigerated section of the big fish stores). It is the only thing I've read about that is a live bacteria culture (smells a little at first but is worth it)! It will start to populate your filter media immediately. With that many fish, I would add as many filters/ceramic media/etc. to get enough of a bacteria population for the cycle. Bio-sprira has size for a 55 gallon. If you find it, keep in mind that you will probably have to feed sparingly and add more (which can get expensive).

To be honest, I would still worry with that many fish. Quarantines are tough enough with an established cycle and filter. I don't know that you could change enough water to keep up unless you kept at it day and night.

I really would not put that many fish in there with hypo and antibiotics until you get some advice from the experts. I really, really tried to keep up with water changes during Hypo with one large tang in an uncycled 20 gallon... and I lost.

Hopefully, Leebca will pitch in and can give some advice (as I am pretty sure they are the most experienced out of all of us on this post).

PS If you had time, you could do a fishless cycle with PURE ammonia drips and then water changes after the cycle is built up. But that takes at least a few weeks.

 

[Triggerfish]

odd that each one of the 3 spots i noticed earlier today are gone now with no replacements as of yet. sure do hope it was sand.. but i have doubts about the one on the tail fin...still hope but very slim at this point.

 

[tjay]

I am not over reacting on mine, No one ever answered to my satisfaction that all white spots are ich. Surely there must be other things that will cause white spots.
No more have appeared on my nasso, none on the other fish everyone is eating swimming and having fun.
No glancing poops are solid so until I see other signs of ich, I am not moving

 

[Triggerfish]

good chance it was just some sand or possibly air bubbles Tjay..
hope all is well..sort of sounds like it.

man my angel was looking mighty fine tonight..silky clean...not a damn spot on him..sure is a nice looking fish...
when the outbreak 1st occurred,,the angel would have spots at least everyother day..so we will see if that pattern persists the 2nd time around...if so,,i just hope the outbreak is real low..so the fish will be able to deal with it pretty easily...
but by the next week or so i should have an idea of what if anything i will be dealing with.

 

[plaz]

AquAsylum,
I know how frustrating it is when your fish are sick and you are trying to figure out what to do. I'm not an expert at fish care, but have learned quite a bit - unfortunately usually because of mistakes I made along the way.

A few thoughts on your situation:
- If you have a filter that has been on your main tank and you can move it, I believe you should. Remember, you will be treating the ich in the filter at the same time (and this would give you at least shot at maintaining biological filtration)
- Hypo can be tough to get through. It is really, really easy to loose biological filtration during Hypo. You MAY want to consider cupramine instead (others please chime in - as I said, I am not an expert). If you do decide use Cupramine, get a Red Sea Copper test kit (I tried Salifert and Seachem first... and could not get a reading until I got the cheaper Red Sea test)
- WetWebMedia.com has experts on staff who will respond to questions (usually within 24 hours). Unfortunately in this hobby many experts have opposite opinions... so hang in there!
- Be prepared with either Bio-Spira marine to build up your cycle and/or some of the anti-ammonia remedies that others have had some success with. Things will usually go wrong at midnight when the stores are closed (you can usually take some of the remedies back if unused)!

Again, best of luck (I didn't mean to be so long winded... but as I said, I don't want others to make the mistakes I made along the way... and not having enough biological cycle and filter media in the quarantine lead to my biggest disaster)!

 

[AquAsylum]

Thanks to those who gave advice. I will be curious to see if Leebpa has any comments and hope that if he does they are at least diplomatic

I just spent 4 days researching ich and got on the "Copper is Bad" bandwagon, so I do not see that method of treatment in our future.

We have a wet/dry filter on the display and could take about 1/2 of the balls out of it to seed the QT. That still seems odd to me, however, and I recall reading a comment in another thread from one of the experts saying "you're going to take media out of your contaminated tank and put it into your treatment tank? Let's rethink that." (or something similar)

It has been a difficult night. We emptied the tank and have put all fish through a FW dip. That was hard to do as a parent. It has definitely worn more on some than others. I hope we will have a full fin count in the morning and we will commence lowering salinity.

Bio-spira- would PetSmart have that? That is our only major pet store chain.

 

[cduran02]

I treated with cupramine, worked like a charm. So far almost 2 months with no signs of ich, not even a dot.

 

[Triggerfish]

i really do not think it makes much difference if the bio media is contaminated,,as the fish already are. everything that will be treated in QT including all media.
what you would not want to do is use any filters from a QT on the main tank without a thorough scrub down and air dried for about a week. that's where you could have an issue.
in fact,,most folks wil just toss the bio media that was used on the QT regardless.

i don't know,,you could give the hypo a try at least you will not be poisoning your livestock..although probably at a safe dosage, but still. however, hypo is really taking awhile to work for my QT, still seeing ich after 3 weeks at 1.009 or below. i am losing hope with it as each day goes by and those freakin things are still there. i do not believe it is going to be all that great for the fish to be in hypo conditions for 3+ months so this better take hold quick.

i'm actually already thinking ahead to begin copper soon.
you must ensure to maintain the sg at the target for the entire duration,,as even 1 day will give them a chance to begin another lifecycle.
there have been low sg strains discovered so there is a slight chance that copper would be the one and only remedy.
i don't know..i have had a spot on my puffer for over 2 weeks now..the thing must be having a damn feast that it does not want to release. freakin thing... i tell ya this strain i'm dealing with is a bastard to eradicate...

good luck..........

 

[markcasto]

Aqua-Without a working biofilter that has been matured for a month at least and with that many fish your going to have major problem with ammonia peeks.

I lost several of my fish due to the ammonia because my bio filter was not ready.I tested for ammonia every day twice and it kept peeking every other day for 3 weeks.The only way I could keep it down was to use seachems prime and water changes plus adding seachems stability.This helped a lot.And using hypo saved me some money on salt cost.

But if your filter system has not got a good colony of bacteria on it and you put all those fish in 1 QT tank your going to kill them unless you do big water changes and test for ammonia every day twice.I have some more info on my webpage if you want to take a look clik my little red house icon.
Good luck.