"ICH FREE TANK" Quest Begins

[jimmyj7090]

My exp

My exp

I'm at the end of a full hypo treatment, thought I would share.

set up QT, began catching fish which took about 2 weeks. Each fish got a 1 mon FW dip before going into the QT, kept the qt at normal SG for another 1-2 wks after all fish were in, then dropped to 1.007-1.008 over 7 days. Kept at 1.007-1.008, with a max high of almost 1.009, daily testing. Fish will have been at that level for 42 days as of 10/31. 2 35% water changes were done during the hypo period (with matched water of course)

No apparent signs of Ick by the time the salinity was dropped (Infection in tank was started by one new fish which was quicly removed, but about 10 days later other fish showed spots so the initial infection wasn't very advanced)

OT is a 75G with sump and ER skimmer.
fish that went in to OT
purple tang
PBT
CBB
6-line
bi color blenny
yellow watchman
green clown goby
yellow colwn goby
Pair of true percs
pair of maroons (seperated from the percs but in the same tank)
2 sm rabbitfish

All are looking great except a couple of losses, probablly stress and the massive overcrowding, these two never started feeding much and were lost early on.
**I'm not lying, I really have had all those fish in a hospital for all this time and they're doing great, I even purchased the PBT and to add to the crowd going into the hospital since they are known to be extra prone to getting and showing signs of ICK, call it a barometer**(or an irresponsible jerk)

losses
yellow watchman
yellow clown goby

SG will begin to go back up slowly on 11/1. The display will have been fish free for a min of 8.5 weeks before the fish go back in.

I'll update with how it goes
jk

 

[Triggerfish]

Again, caution on SPS reef tanks. I would not use it due to RTN possibilities.

they claim the product is "reef safe" and i am presuming that they make that claim based only on manufacturers stated dosing directions (2oz/25g).

 

[pecan2phat]

When I treated my SPS reef tank, the stated dosage of 2 oz per 25 gallons was adhered to.
The "load" dose & 150% thereafter doses were for my FOWLR that I am still treating at this moment.

 

[tjay]

Just checking back in on this thread, for those who dont remember we did hypo and a fallow main in our quest for an ich free tank.
Later Katrina put our fish through some major stress that they are still going through. We lost all but our Nasso, a clown, and a damsel. None of those fish have lapsed back to ich. I do not think you could stress a nasso more than
7 days no light, high 80s, no food, no filtration in a 90 with dying fish and corals
a move to a 45 gallon via buckets
A move to dallas in buckets
and still no ich.
Stress will not cause ich in an uninfected clean tank.

We are going back to Dallas Monday on our final trip from New Orleans to Dallas, moving truck with the remainder of our belongings.

We took the move time, to change to a reef ready tank and add a sump/refugium
Today I picked up an ozonizer, not to control ich but to work on water purity as I venture into SPS.

Stick to proven methods, and fight the temtation to cut corners. It will burn you every time. It can be done

 

[Triggerfish]

tjay - glad to hear you are getting things back together...good luck..

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Yes , good luck!

 

[tjay]

Hey folks anyone here run a sump? Off topic but I need a simple question answered. does the drain line have to be bigger than the return?

 

[pecan2phat]

Your drain line is typically at least 33% larger than your return line. Standard on a 55g to 180g AGA tank would be 1" drain with a 3/4" return. I use a 1.5" drain with multiple 3/4" returns. Is there a rule? That I am not sure of.

 

[guyguerra]

Jimmy, you might already be planning on this, but keeping the fish for one or two more weeks after you bring the salinity up will give better proof that the Ich is gone. I agree with tjay, after successful treatment of my fish, none of the moves or stress ever made Ich appear again. I have felt that this was proof positive to me that tanks do not inherently have Ich, and makes me disagree with those that say it's always present and waiting for stress to bring it out. Just a brief stray off topic, tjay, we've got a post going here addressing emergency back up power supply's to aquariums at http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5998552#post5998552 , you might have some good advice from all you've experienced.

 

[plaz]

We are thinking of getting a whole house generator to run essentials including my home office, fridge and freezer (my tank is of course the # one essential! Home Depot carries a Generac Guardian (12K or 15K) and a QuietSource (10K). At the lowere 10K end, the Quietsource is still a little bit more expensive. Does anyone know how quiet they are compared to the Guardian? Noise is a concern - we don't want to drive the neighbors (or us crazy - and excessive noise really drives me crazy!

Thanks for any info!

PS If we get this installed, I'm also going to get them to put on a whole house surge protector. This is the one I'm looking at - http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductDetail?sku=4750378&SourceID=k40132

If anyone knows about those or any brand, please advise.

 

[plaz]

Sorry - posted the generator questions in the wrong thread. I don't know how to move it, but copied it to guy's thread.

 

[jimmyj7090]

guyguerra,

thanks for the thought.

I am actually planning on bringing the salinity up over 2 weeks, then I have a second QT set up at normal SG and fairly good light so I can give each fish an observation period, one by one, before returning to the displlay. I was thinking along the lines of giving each fish (or pair of clowns) a week of observation in the secondary QT after a week or so of observation in the current hosp at normal SG.

Does this sound like a good approach, or would you suggest any mods to that plan?

Also, being the identified "ICK magnet" do you think the PBT should go in first or last?
(I know it's usually reccomended to put them in last in general, but this one is quite peaceful and all these guys are going from a 75g hosp to a 120 display so I'm not too worried about new found aggression)

What do you think?

jk

 

[kimoyo]

Triggerfish (or anyone)-

Earlier in the thread you said you thought ich can live or be transported on rock. If thats so, can it also be transported or live on/in inverts? I'm specifically wondering about snails and shrimp. If coralline algae can be transported through the stomach of snails I'm just wondering what else can since we cant put inverts thru a hypo or copper treatment?

Also, what effect does a hyposalinity treatment have on coralline algae and the biological filter if any at all?

Thanks.

 

[guyguerra]

Jimmy, I think your plan sounds very good. When I finally rid my tanks of Ich last year I did a similar procedure. If I understand yours, you will bring the salinity up in the tank that they are being treated in, then leave them there for two weeks to make sure the Ich isn't dormant in the low salinity, then if it doesn't come back, you'll move them to a second tank for two weeks, which will act as a semi-transfer method and get them out of the treated tank to make sure, once and for all, that it's gone. I wager BIG bets that after all that, your fish can go back in the display and you WILL NOT HAVE ICH in that group. I haven't had a Powder Blue Tang, so am of no help there.

kimoyo, there several threads that show convincing reasons to QT corals, inverts, LR and anything else that came from any tank that hasn't been fallow for 8 weeks. There is one gentleman that says he transferred Ich into his tank not once, but twice, by transplanting macro algae from an infected tank, and another that says he got it from some LR that a friend of his gave him. Particularly LR, where the parasite can adhere in it's dormant stage, only to open up and spread in your tank. The only option here is to fallow it in a tank that has not had copper used in it. This seems to get very work intensive, and I have not done it yet, but since my 230 is just about complete, I will use these precautions on the last items I add and be thankful for some of the luck I've had when I added corals and inverts. I am close friends with the owner of my LFS and will be discussing the reasoning for keeping their coral tanks fallow. I always see a fish or two in them and wonder why.

 

[plaz]

Yes, anything can bring it in. Even a drop of water on your hand.

As far as the LFS, two problems with depending on them (even if they do as you ask):
1) Their plumbing is probably all connected (same water used in multiple tanks).
2) If they add any corals or snails, you would have to start the time clock over. You would likely never have 4 weeks where they didn't add anything.

 

[kimoyo]

Guyguerra - Thanks for your input. I just started my tank and put some fish, shrimp and snails in to only find that ich got into the system somehow. So before I get corals I was planning on doing a hypotreatment with the fish in the main display.

But just so I understand this correctly. If I move all my shrimp and snails to a QT with no fish for 8 weeks, it should rid those guys of the ich?

I was planning on qt'ing (not for 8 weeks though) my corals when I add them for other reasons but does this mean we should do those for 8 weeks also?

At this point after having to remove one of my tangs for black ich (so hard to catch him) I'm willing to do whatever preventive action is needed. But I don't want to be in the situation that Triggerfish is in where after a 2-3 treatments, ich still comes back.

Will a hypo treatment for 6 weeks rid the main display (with rocks) of ich?

Will the hypo treatment affect the biological filter?

 

[kimoyo]

Yes, anything can bring it in. Even a drop of water on your hand.

I wish I would have read about these problems before I got fish. I'm glad this happened now though before I got corals. It has also made me think about how I will introduce corals with the pests that can affect or be transported by them.

Are there any other diseases that I should look for or think about treating for now?

 

[guyguerra]

I am afraid to put too much emphasis on my own opinion, and a search for "Ich" on this site will pull up hundreds of threads, but I am going to state what I would do and the reasons why. I'll qualify my approach only by saying that I spent many, many hours researching Ich with anyone that would talk to me about it and anything I could read about it, and I fought it several ways. Heres what I would do if I were in your shoes, though others may have different opinions, and be equally correct. There is no one way to deal with this, but heres my feelings on it.

I would not treat the main tank at all, I would fallow it. Eight weeks will break the Ich cycle and the parasite will not be able to survive without it's host's. My reason for fallowing the tank is that you do not want to slow down the growth on your live rock or your live sand. You will be pleased with how well your rock developes over 8 weeks without fish in the tank. Hypo on your LR will probably kill off some of the growth that you want to keep. Another advantage is that we all keep our displays in the main areas of our homes. I would rather see my LR developing and see my inverts than look at a hospital tank every night. You can also add your corals during this time. Your display will not feel like dooms day. You will not have to worry about hurting your bio system, though hypo or copper will not hurt it anyway.

I would treat the fish in a separate tank, and I would use Cupramine. Use Seachems test kit. Make sure the tank is large enough and the filtration is good enough to keep the tank stable. I would continue that treatment for 6 weeks after you see the last spot. Then I would pull the copper out of the tank for two weeks to make sure the Ich doesn't re-appear once the copper isn't killing it. I used hypo at 11 ppt and found that the strain I had was immune to low salinity. I was exact in my testing daily with a refractometer. Copper works, period. I spent 6 weeks wasting time trying hypo, then went to Cupramine and finally beat it.

I am no expert, and there are a lot of more experienced people than me on this site, but I fought it, researched it, and beat it and now have an Ich free tank.


Guy

 

[kimoyo]

guyguerra - thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I was thinking about the copper method but there are a couple of things stopping me.

I didn't start out with LR, just base rock that I have been seeding with coralline and building up my nitrosomonas and nitrobacter cycling bacteria with. Will the hypo bother either of these?

But the main problem is I don't have a separate tank big enough and with enough equipment that I feel I can house my fish for 8 weeks properly.

So I'm trying to do the best I can with what I have.

I also thought about removing the live rock from the system and doing the copper treatment but I have read that its better to do hypo because it is not toxic.

Has the hypo actually worked for people?

Thanks.

 

[kimoyo]

Hey Dennis,

Yep thats because I brought my fish online and didn't quarantine them when they got here. The problems came with the fish and I'm doing what I can now to correct the issues before they become severe. All the fish in my tank look healthy except for one. He's a low swimmer and was the one who developed black ich the other day. After giving him a freshwater dip he's still scratching. Most of the spots are gone but I am concerned about regular ich with him also. My only regret was not reading and asking questions about these diseases sooner.

As far as nosickfish, I was waiting for pecan2phat to come back with his opinions on it before I thought about using it.

Thanks.