ICH Help!

[spearlikeslinky]

All i have a bad break out of ich. My hippo also has pop eye. I did ay60% water change and the ick still hung in their and multiplied. Hippo is covered with dozens of white spots. My lfs told me to buy Rally medication, comes in a large bottle and is im told supposed to be really good at ridding all parasitic and bacterial infections such as ich and pop eye, im told its what they use and it cures it every time. I am told its very reef and invert safe so i dosed 5 oz, 1 oz for every 10 gallons of actual tank water volume and thats it. Turned off all carbon, and filters. Has anyone used rally before? Im wondering if after 3 or 5 days when the bottle says it expires do i have to redose ? or if after that point should i be rid of the ich in the system? My lfs told me to increase the temp in my tank as it would speed the process that the ich parasite is vulnerable in allowing me to kill it with the rally.

Any help with dosing ? i dont have a QT to remove the fish so i have to dose in the tank. Please dont tell me to get one, i know i need one, i just want to know how to cure this situation with what i have.

thanks,

 

[TOM BLEVINS]

I went though this 2 months ago, tried the Rally with no luck,2 large bottles!

1 week later after I noticed our Purple Tang with a few spots started treating
with the Rally, 9 days later after the 2 bottles we are a trio of flame wrasses, flame angel, chevron tang & a gold flake angel short!

I went and purchased seachem (garlic guard) & 2 paks of Rod's Food & did
my normal water changes & 2 weeks it was gone and no sighs of Ich.


Good Luck & I have learned now to have a QT for all new fish purchases since this is what started the hole issue.

 

[phillyfishguy]

QT tank

QT tank

The first thing I purchased was my QT tanks lol ....

 

[Chris27]

1. Reef safe meds don't work.
2. Garlic doesn't work.
3. Heavy feeding doesn't work.

What get's me is the fact that folks start feeding their fish better food when they get Crypt? Why would this help? A good reefer feeds their fish well everyday, regardless of whether or not it's sick...more food won't magically make a parasite go away. When a human, dog, cat, etc. gets a parasite, we give them medication, not a 4 hour trip to the local Chinese Buffet on crab leg night.

QT and active treatment works, copper/hypo whichever you prefer, is the only surefire way to eradicate the parasite.

I won't say that you should go get a QT, you know the answer to that, but I will tell you that you can not eradicate the parasite from a display tank that contains both inverts and fish.

 

[Sk8r]

Go up and read the stickies. This will tell you which med treats what, and how to use it.

 

[spearlikeslinky]

ICH Help

ICH Help

Stickies ? I wonder if those who fed their fish garlic and did water changes, changed out 50% or more of their water? This may have been how they effectively got rid of the free floating parasites, then the fish was strong enough to fight it off alone. Maybe they have just gone invisible and are still there ? Im worried about stressing my hippo out even more since he has pop eye and ich. I would worry about his ammune system with all of these treatments. Im thinking about the Hypo if it allows them to relax a bit since they dont have to exstrete and exchange ions due to higher salinity. This fish NEEDS to survive, he cost a lot of money!

 

[Sk8r]

I would strongly suggest hypo in a qt tank, and meticulous water tests and high aeration to help his breathing. Plus using filter floss and tossing daily---which may export any ich that falls off him. Too many meds can damage kidneys. He's a very sick fish, and may have a bacterial infection (the popeye) as well as ich. How is he eating?

 

[returnofsid]

There are basically 3 ways to treat Ich. All must be done, outside the display tank, and all fish must be treated, to eradicate Ich from your display.

1. Hyposalinity, in a QT tank, while leaving the display tank fallow for 8 weeks.

2. Copper treatment, in QT tank, while leaving the display tank fallow for 8 weeks.

3. QT tank transfer method, which involves moving all fish from one QT tank, to another QT tank, every day, tossing all the used water, completely cleaning tank, and setting it up for the next day. This also will require leaving the display tank fallow, for 8 weeks.

No other treatment will work. "Reef Safe Ich treatments" don't exist. If it's strong enough to kill Ich, it'll kill other beneficial inverts. Instead, to make them "reef safe," they aren't strong enough to kill Ich.

Garlic does not work, and causes Liver Damage.

 

[spearlikeslinky]

Ich Help

Ich Help

Thanks all for the great help. I find it frustrating that i asked my lfs about a qt tank and they told me not to do it unless i have it already set up and running. If i set it up as an emergency one they said its going to be worse on the fish even if i use my DT water they said i'll still have an ammonia spike. Not sure if i understand why if i am using bare tank not substrate and the same established water. I would love to do the hypo salinity trick but i need to know the MOST safe treatment since my fish is SO sick with multiple ailments. my LFS just told me to try a Hydroplex Dip for 10 minutes each day and the other fish should be strong enough to prevent against the parasite. thoughts on this ?

 

[Sk8r]

No, don't dip a very sick fish. You still may not be able to save him, let me be frank---but I fear a dip would kill him outright, right in your hands.
You don't have to have an ammonia spike, because you don't have to have a cycled qt for this fellow. And if you can start hypo for him immediately, you may be able to relieve his breathing within the hour.
Let me hunt down a thread in the newbie forum that even has a picture of how to do this.

Here we go:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992853&highlight=shopping+list+for

Basically, set up a bare qt, with a pot filter, and enough pillow stuffing you can change that floss every time you see the least stain. That will prevent it ever cycling. Also get an ammonia alert [Seachem] and a bottle of Amquel...in case you have any incidence of it. In the long ago of the Jurassic, when I started keeping fish, tanks weren't cycled, they were just cleaned. Often. At least daily, for fussy fish.

 

[Phishguy]

Dumb question maybe, but what is fallow?

As for ich, in most of the reading I've done, and I'm by no means a saltwater guru, it seems that ich is always present but only show signs when there is some sort of stress involved. Sort of like viruses in humans. If all it took was some copper or hypo to completely eradicate it, then why wouldn't lfs's run all their fish systems with copper etc. To prevent it in their customers home aquariums?

 

[spearlikeslinky]

ich help

ich help

From what i understand the lfs do not do this 1 because its an added expense for them, and 2 because copper is NOT safe for the reef or inverts. It will kill all of them. The LFS would need to have a Quarentine tank setup, cycled, running all the time to ONLY dip fish in. Its more work and time when time also equals money. I wasnt sure myself but from context im assuming fallow means no fish. It makes sense because the last phase of the Ich is to look for another host after its free swimming. It must do so within 24 hours or else they will begin to die. So Fallow, with now fish in the tank , just inverts and coral that the ich dont like, they all die. After the die off and water change, replace the cured fish.

 

[returnofsid]

Dumb question maybe, but what is fallow?

As for ich, in most of the reading I've done, and I'm by no means a saltwater guru, it seems that ich is always present but only show signs when there is some sort of stress involved. Sort of like viruses in humans. If all it took was some copper or hypo to completely eradicate it, then why wouldn't lfs's run all their fish systems with copper etc. To prevent it in their customers home aquariums?

Fallow is Fishless. In other words, no fish, at all, in the display tank, for 8 weeks.

Ich is not always present. This is a myth. Ich is a parasite, that can be eradicated, completely, if done properly.

From what i understand the lfs do not do this 1 because its an added expense for them, and 2 because copper is NOT safe for the reef or inverts. It will kill all of them. The LFS would need to have a Quarentine tank setup, cycled, running all the time to ONLY dip fish in. Its more work and time when time also equals money. I wasnt sure myself but from context im assuming fallow means no fish. It makes sense because the last phase of the Ich is to look for another host after its free swimming. It must do so within 24 hours or else they will begin to die. So Fallow, with now fish in the tank , just inverts and coral that the ich dont like, they all die. After the die off and water change, replace the cured fish.

Ich will die, without a fish to parasitize. However, it takes longer than 24 hours. Because of the various stages, of the life cycle of Ich, a display tank needs to be "fallow" for 8 weeks, to guarantee that all of the parasites die.

 

[Sk8r]

Certain fish online vendors do their own quarantine, and sell quarantined clean stock. Unfortunately [in the law of unintended consequences] this allows people who don't quarantine to believe they are specially lucky and their tank is bulletproof. Their immunity lasts until they are tempted by some fish with another vendor.

 

[briankmarsh1980]

Certain fish online vendors do their own quarantine, and sell quarantined clean stock. Unfortunately [in the law of unintended consequences] this allows people who don't quarantine to believe they are specially lucky and their tank is bulletproof. Their immunity lasts until they are tempted by some fish with another vendor.

Very true!!
Here in phoenix we have 1 really good fish store that has a state of the art QT system (fish/inverts) and we have other stores that don't QT nothing
I hear about people buying from the store that QTs and have great luck and great fish..... Then I read threads about them going to another fish store and buy fish cause they are so much cheaper and bam they wipe out all there fish.