Ich in large tank & glued live rock - now what?

T

twinturbo11

New member
Hey guys

Today I noticed ICH on a coral beauty i brought in about 2 weeks ago with no quarantine - she looked super healthy at the fish store. :headwallblue: The rest of my 12 fish seem ok for now, but I am guessing ICH will get to them quickly. I have a 300 gallon FOWLR tank . It's 1 meter/40 inches deep. The liverock is glued together (since the tank is quite tall). It's impossible to catch the fish. It's impossible to take out the liverock. I am not sure what the heck I can do? I cant dose copper in the DT. I can try hyposalinity in the DT - I am pretty sure not all the bacteria in the sand and live rock will die - however I do run the risk of major killer ammonia spikes. And doing fast-paced RODI water changes for this size tank is tough.... I would love to hear your advice ! thanks
 
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chloroquine phosphate, thats what im using on my main tank because I am in a similar situation. I ended up taking out all coral/inverts moved them to a smaller 29g tank, I then treated the main with CP. All algae died, had a fake ammonia spike (confirmed by salifert). While this isn't the best method, I plan on doing this for atleast 4 weeks or so.
 
1) did you dose 60mg/gallon?
2) one time dosing, or gradual over 10 days? I am assuming you add back losses from water changes
3) Does this kill bacteria? small crabs that you cant catch? snails?
4) What exactly happens when Algae dies? does it also affect coraline algae?
5) how do you get the chloroquine phosphate out of the DT at the end of the 4 weeks? carbon?

rog2961 said:
chloroquine phosphate, thats what im using on my main tank because I am in a similar situation. I ended up taking out all coral/inverts moved them to a smaller 29g tank, I then treated the main with CP. All algae died, had a fake ammonia spike (confirmed by salifert). While this isn't the best method, I plan on doing this for atleast 4 weeks or so.
Click to expand...
 
one more idea that I would love to hear people opinion on: I am thinking of lowering salinity to the ~1.012 level. So not as quite low as 009 level, where lots of things die off from the hyposalinity creating an ammonia spike, but at a level that's low-enough to stifle and hurt the disease in question. What do you guys think?
 
twinturbo11 said:
one more idea that I would love to hear people opinion on: I am thinking of lowering salinity to the ~1.012 level. So not as quite low as 009 level, where lots of things die off from the hyposalinity creating an ammonia spike, but at a level that's low-enough to stifle and hurt the disease in question. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Everything I have read about hypo salinity clearly states that it must be maintained at 1.009 s.g. or the parasite will not be eradicated.
 
twinturbo11 said:
one more idea that I would love to hear people opinion on: I am thinking of lowering salinity to the ~1.012 level. So not as quite low as 009 level, where lots of things die off from the hyposalinity creating an ammonia spike, but at a level that's low-enough to stifle and hurt the disease in question. What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

That salinity wouldn't be low enough to kill off the ich.
 
would the 1.012 salinity hurt the ICH though? wouldnt it be a helpful step forward, even though it's not full force 1.009? Again, I go back to my situation, I cant take out the fish or live rock - so what would you do?

Alternatively, what if I go down to 1.009 but only for 5 days and then back up to 1.012 for a week, then 1.015 for another 2 weeks, then 1.018 for a final 2 weeks? Would 1.009 for these 5 days somewhat kill the ICH (I understand optimal is 4 weeks!) , but not kill off everything else/and not create a massive ammonia spike?

losing hope on this hobby... :hmm5:
 
twinturbo11 said:
1) did you dose 60mg/gallon?
2) one time dosing, or gradual over 10 days? I am assuming you add back losses from water changes
3) Does this kill bacteria? small crabs that you cant catch? snails?
4) What exactly happens when Algae dies? does it also affect coraline algae?
5) how do you get the chloroquine phosphate out of the DT at the end of the 4 weeks? carbon?
Click to expand...


I did 8 grams for approximately 150-180 gallons, went a bit overboard (may have contributed to lack of appetite), I did one dose, and two water changes. I figured I removed 2/3 of the meds by doing so, so I put back around 5 grams. No bacteria die off that I can see, I don't have crab/snails in my tank. I did have two cleaner shrimp. I coudln't get them out and they were in there for the majority of the 10 days. I think on day 7 or 8 one of the shrimp dissapeared. at this point I pulled the other one out and put him in the coral QT. At this point I have no idea where he is (small 29g too). The water gets white, all existing algae turns white, and eventually your rocks will look bleached. Didn't have any coralline to start so not sure. When I started losing my anthias, I did two 30g water changes, I figured this was close to 50%. I noticed once I did this all the anthias perked up. I ultimately wanted to continue treatment with CP and break the ich lifecycle. It was either risk letting ich takeover again (restart the clock) or let the anthias go. The anthias ultimately died from lack of appetite. They stopped eating once treatment started and since these guys like to eat alot, it didn't turn out good. The one male is still OK. Point being, large water changes + carbon will remove it in my opinion. I saw immediate improvement with clean water.
 
I also need to mention I initially mixed a unmeasured amount of CP with mysis, most of the fish ate it and I had one anthia pass the next day. It would appear they are a bit sensitive to the drug.
 
Gonna follow along here as I'm facing the same issue in a full fledged mixed reef and I'm not about to tear down the aquascape. In my case I did quarantine every fish and have had no new additions since February of this year. I'm still dumbfounded as to how it was introduced, but a sneaky suspicion is that some cysts came on the frags I got at macna in August.
 
TheGodParticle said:
Why is it that you can't dose copper in the DT if it's a fish only tank?
Click to expand...

Because the copper will be absorbed by rock, sand/substrate and anything porous in the tank only to leach it out later back into the water. Which means no inverts can be placed in tank aka snails, crabs, shrimp ect... after treatment even when you think the copper is "gone".
 
Crimson said:
Because the copper will be absorbed by rock, sand/substrate and anything porous in the tank only to leach it out later back into the water. Which means no inverts can be placed in tank aka snails, crabs, shrimp ect... after treatment even when you think the copper is "gone".
Click to expand...

This is not completely true. That's why I asked. You can safely use a product like Cupramin which won't be absorbed in your sandbed or LR (one of the most popular treatments there are) and which also will neither affect the overall health of the sanbed or LR. It can then be very easily removed with carbon once you're done with treatment. There are a lot of myths surrounding copper treatments. I've treated my FOWLR DT many many times over the years with Cupramin and later added inverts with absolutely no problem. Not all coppers are equal. He can very easily treat his DT with copper of he so chooses. Just takes a little digging to find out.

http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine.html
 
I've read ,not sure if it was on this forum or another ,but people have used ginger in a reef tank, since it is effective at killing parasites. I have not tried it as I have very few fish but I would look into it a little further. Good luck either way. Just a thought
 
No half measures, they're useless.

When it comes to ich you could try things that are not going to work (Ginger, garlic, any reef safe treatment) and accept the fact that you have ich, you and you always will. Some people do this, just be aware that one day something could stress the fish, leaving them more susceptible to the parasite and could wipe out your tank.

Half measures will only leave you with problems. You will go through all of that work, risk losing your livestock to stress, and will NOT eradicate ich from the system and you'll end up in the same boat you would be in had you done nothing.

Personally if I were you I would go with CP, but that's my opinion.
 
Well if you're up for experimenting.. try Dr G's anti parasitic medicated food. Has CP in it and says reef safe. Be good to see if it works to eliminate ich just by feeding.
 
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