Ich killed all my fish

[Crackem]

Long story short, I upgraded from a 72 bowfront to a 120. After the tank cycled in about a month (June 2015) I slowly transferred 3 true perculas, a flame and bellus Angel, and a blue hippo and black cap basslet in July. I added a clean up crew a few weeks later and a few sps frags. One day i noticed my blackcap didn't come out to eat and before I knew it he was struggling and floating. Not long after, my clowns got white spots on them. A friend came over and used a microscope and we caught a clown and got a sample and he positively identified Ich. I tried using medicated food but it didn't work. Within a week to 10 days all fish died. I did setup a 20 gallon qt but it was to late. It's currently running with cupramine in it

My first question is because of my rockwork I was unable to remove the flame angel after it died and my cleanup crew took care of it. My blue hippo tang disappeared so I'm assuming it died yesterday 8/21/15. Can Ich Live on a dead fish? I want to start over and Qt all my new fish so I plan on going fallow for 72 days. I have many more questions but this is the one I need answered first.

 

[ThRoewer]

There are several possibilities:

1. your fish had a latent Ich infection all along and the change to the new tank weakened them enough to cause an open outbreak - Ich normally requires at a minimum 2 to 3 weeks to build up the numbers that can kill fish. But if there was already an occult infection going, all it needed to strike full force was the fish's immune system to come down.

2. you could have imported Ich with the new clean up crew, new live rocks of the new frags. In that case it should have taken a while before the parasites reached the numbers required to kill a fish.

As for Ich on dead fish - no. The parasites will leave the dead fish immediately to not become prey of scavengers. Only bacteria and Uronema would stay on the dead body to feed on it but not Ich.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

That short of a period of time you more than likely are dealing with velvet, not ich. The treatment you used, medicated food, would not have been successful even if it was ich.
You can read the stickies at the top of the forum on how to get rid of velvet from your main.

 

[ThRoewer]

That short of a period of time you more than likely are dealing with velvet, not ich. The treatment you used, medicated food, would not have been successful even if it was ich.
You can read the stickies at the top of the forum on how to get rid of velvet from your main.

If I read his post right it's been about two months since he moved the fish. The 10 days were just the period during which the fish died (first to last fish dead).

The thing that always makes me think is when all fish die. I've seen outbreaks of various diseases in my own tanks and at store systems and almost never would all fish die nor would even all fish get sick. If all fish die in a tank I would look for a deeper underlying cause.

 

[Perth_reefer]

The thing that always makes me think is when all fish die. I've seen outbreaks of various diseases in my own tanks and at store systems and almost never would all fish die nor would even all fish get sick. If all fish die in a tank I would look for a deeper underlying cause.

+1 here, I'd say it's very rare for all fish to die from the more common diseases we see such as ich without adding something else into the equation such as huge amounts of stress, chasing the clownfish around to catch it certainly wouldn't have helped but I wouldn't have said that would have been enough to wipe out the tank. It's difficult to pinpoint a cause without know everything about the system, however the OP stated that it was positively identified as ich and all fish died within 10 days without any form of treatment, this is a rare occurrence IMO.

 

[Crackem]

My rocks were all dry and man made. My tank is barebottom. The only things added were snails and crabs. My hippo tang is still alive but he's not coming out or eating when the lights are on. I tried moving some rocks around and he bit me. I have a positive id under microscope that Ich was present. The day after that, all three clowns looked like they were wasting away with long strings hanging off them.

The fish were added starting July 6. The tank was started June 1st. I used seachem stability. I never saw it cycle, and every time I tested I got 0 nitrites, ammonia, and nitrates. The fish were all doing fine and eating well for around 3 weeks. I did a water change one day and the next day is when I noticed Ich.

 

[Perth_reefer]

How do you mean you never saw it cycle? You never got Ammonia spikes and Nitrate rises during the cycling period? The thing I've found using dry rock in the past is that you can pretty much double the initial cycle time, it takes a lot longer to build up the biofiltration in your system as there is no die off in the rock. Dry rock in my experience also has massive amounts of phosphates in it and sometimes needs to be treated accordingly before putting it in the tank.

 

[ThRoewer]

... I have a positive id under microscope that Ich was present. ...

How do you know that it was ich what you saw? Unless you have a degree in fish parasitology or vast experience in identifying pathogens under the microscope I kind of doubt the validity of this diagnosis, especially because of this:

... The day after that, all three clowns looked like they were wasting away with long strings hanging off them...

Whitish plaque with slimy strings in the final stages are symptoms of Brooklynella which fits the timeline better and the fact that it killed the clownfish first.

 

[Perth_reefer]

I'm starting to wonder whether this is a case of Brooklynella bought on by the tank not being cycled correctly and the fish being exposed to high levels of Ammonia...

 

[Deinonych]

I would say multiple factors were at play. First, the tank was not cycled properly. If there were no measured nitrites or nitrates, there likely was no ammonia source. You can't cycle a tank by just adding bacteria. You have to provide a constant ammonia source so the bacteria can colonize the rock and establish a biofilter.

Second, it sounds like Brooklynella may have been introduced to the tank - possibly via the CUC. That, coupled by the inadequate biofilter doomed all the fish.

I also question the "positive ID" on Cryptocaryon. Brooklynella can look very similar under a microscope, and to ThRoewer's point, you need considerable experience in piscine parasitology or histopathology to tell the difference.

 

[snorvich]

I would say multiple factors were at play. First, the tank was not cycled properly. If there were no measured nitrites or nitrates, there likely was no ammonia source. You can't cycle a tank by just adding bacteria. You have to provide a constant ammonia source so the bacteria can colonize the rock and establish a biofilter.

Second, it sounds like Brooklynella may have been introduced to the tank - possibly via the CUC. That, coupled by the inadequate biofilter doomed all the fish.

I also question the "positive ID" on Cryptocaryon. Brooklynella can look very similar under a microscope, and to ThRoewer's point, you need considerable experience in piscine parasitology or histopathology to tell the difference.

I agree with all of the points above. From the timeline, it almost cannot be ich.

 

[sde1500]

I'm no expert here, but wouldn't a bare bottom tank make it hard for Ich to reproduce too? Since, from what I know, it needs sandy substrate?

 

[snorvich]

I'm no expert here, but wouldn't a bare bottom tank make it hard for Ich to reproduce too? Since, from what I know, it needs sandy substrate?

No. Bare bottom would work fine for one of the life cycle stages of ich.

 

[Crackem]

Thank You for your responses. I agree with all points mentioned. I'm guessing the bacteria couldn't keep up with the bioload even tho I was adding pellets as an ammonia source, and the disease was brought in by the cuc. The friend who diagnosed Ich is an aquatic vet, but maybe he ruled out brooklynella to soon.