Uh, this thread is 3.5 years old.
True. However it demonstrates that SEARCH works well.
Ich POLL!
- Thread starter THEDLO
- Start date
True. However it demonstrates that SEARCH works well.
cabinetman123
Member
Old thread but a good one. My tank has ick in it. I've had some nasty outbreaks when I first got into this hobby. It took me a long while not to pannic when I saw a spot on one of my fish and tear the whole tank apart and do crazy stuff to try to cure it. Now I don't worry a bit. It goes away if your system is healthy. I'd be willing to bet that 10 times more fish are killed by trying to treat ick than by the ick itself. Sad really. It's tough though cause when people get started there systems arnt healthy and there qt systems are even worst. Catch 22 cause ick will kill if the system is not right and the fish arnt in an environment that they can fight it off
wooden_reefer
New member
I say that if your tank is full of very susceptable fish and you have no measure to reduce the concentration of ich (such as with a diatom filter or very low cu or marginal salinity hovering on effective hypo) and yet you have no sign of ich for six months or longer, then likely ich does not exist in your tank.
Neptune 555
New member
I have had a FOWLR now a reef for 15 years. I now *think* I have an ich free tank and have followed the QT process outlined on this forum of TTM (no longer will I use prazi pro!). I started using the process after a tank wipe out due to velvet 4 years ago. I have killed more fish during QT then I ever lost before I started the process. My poor experience with QT are mostly due to my QT system is just not as stable as my DT. I am constantly making newbie mistakes.. and tend to think less time in QT is better due to my issues with QT. Once a fish lives 1 - 2 weeks in my care.. they typically live 10+ years.. so my experience with QT is still immature.
Reading this thread has provided great insight.. I do think however the poll needs to be more descriptive b/c even I would have a hard time answering... I am 95% sure my tank is ich free BUT I have placed inverts directly into the tank so it is possible ich entered the system.
I am still going to QT all fish before they go into the DT to fatten them up... I am not going to use any medication unless I see a problem.
Neptune
Reading this thread has provided great insight.. I do think however the poll needs to be more descriptive b/c even I would have a hard time answering... I am 95% sure my tank is ich free BUT I have placed inverts directly into the tank so it is possible ich entered the system.
I am still going to QT all fish before they go into the DT to fatten them up... I am not going to use any medication unless I see a problem.
Neptune
ThRoewer
New member
If QT was just for ich I might be less concerned. But ich is really the least concerning of all the parasites that new fish may come with.
There are things far worse than ich out there, parasites that reproduce so fast that you have little to no time to react before you start losing fish at large.
Ich usually gives you plenty of announcements - in some cases you have a month or more to make up your mind whether to treat or not, and if treat with what.
Amyloodinium, Brooklynella, Monoganean (skin and gill "flukes"), Uronema,... may not give you a fraction of that time before you encounter massive losses.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
There are things far worse than ich out there, parasites that reproduce so fast that you have little to no time to react before you start losing fish at large.
Ich usually gives you plenty of announcements - in some cases you have a month or more to make up your mind whether to treat or not, and if treat with what.
Amyloodinium, Brooklynella, Monoganean (skin and gill "flukes"), Uronema,... may not give you a fraction of that time before you encounter massive losses.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Paul B
Premium Member
Um, I have my hand up. My tank has been running for 44 years and some of the fish are 25 years old. Never quarantined, don't ever have sick fish and I am sure there is so much ich in there it would make your head spin. But I keep my fish immune.
I know how many feel about that and I find this thread very funny and I enjoyed it. I also think IMO there is so much wrong information that it is a shame after all these years that this hobby is around, ich is still a problem for so many people. Have fun guys and I wish everyone an ich free future. :lol:
ThRoewer
New member
Paul, I have a few questions:
- How many fish do you buy in a year?
- Where do you buy your fish?
- How do you select your fish?
I'm assuming you buy few fish, usually locally and select them carefully.
Back in Germany I didn't do much quarantine either - usually I set up new tanks when I planned to buy new fish (I ended up with more than 30 tanks + 22 larva and grow-out tanks).
At that time I selected my fish rather carefully and got livestock primarily from De Jong and a couple of local stores who's owners I worked with.
But even with careful selection I bought some fish that were sick - mostly rare clownfish (percula were super rare back then in Germany) where I knowingly decided to take the risk and treatment usually turned out to be required.
Back then I fed my fish a lot since most were broodstock and pretty much all were spawning like crazy. Since it were all fish only tanks I ran my salinities low at around 1.017. That alone helped quite a bit.
The tanks didn't look pretty with GHA, RHA and bryopsis everywhere, but the fish didn't care much about that.
Ich is usually only a problem for people who overstock their tanks with incompatible fish or have other systemic issues. And of course when buying fish that already come with a significant ich infection.
I've read up quite a bit on immunity and yes, fish can acquire various degrees of immunity to a wide multitude of parasites, including Amyloodinium and Monogeneans (skin & gill "flukes"). But it usually requires surviving an infection and then some recovery time to build up the defenses to that particular parasite. Though during an active and escalating infection with such fast replicating parasites fish have not the energy resources to build up immunity.
However, there are other things that can kill fish so fast that they have no time to build up immunity. Those are parasites that generally require treatment. Those things are the reason why I quarantine these days.
If you think otherwise then I dare you to get a few really sick fish with velvet or flukes and toss them into your tank. I don't think you will take that risk...
BTW: my main system has some low level ich and the fish seem to handle it fine. Flare-ups usually happen only when a new fish is added who disrupts the hacking order or due to other significant stressors. It usually goes away on it's own.
- How many fish do you buy in a year?
- Where do you buy your fish?
- How do you select your fish?
I'm assuming you buy few fish, usually locally and select them carefully.
Back in Germany I didn't do much quarantine either - usually I set up new tanks when I planned to buy new fish (I ended up with more than 30 tanks + 22 larva and grow-out tanks).
At that time I selected my fish rather carefully and got livestock primarily from De Jong and a couple of local stores who's owners I worked with.
But even with careful selection I bought some fish that were sick - mostly rare clownfish (percula were super rare back then in Germany) where I knowingly decided to take the risk and treatment usually turned out to be required.
Back then I fed my fish a lot since most were broodstock and pretty much all were spawning like crazy. Since it were all fish only tanks I ran my salinities low at around 1.017. That alone helped quite a bit.
The tanks didn't look pretty with GHA, RHA and bryopsis everywhere, but the fish didn't care much about that.
Ich is usually only a problem for people who overstock their tanks with incompatible fish or have other systemic issues. And of course when buying fish that already come with a significant ich infection.
I've read up quite a bit on immunity and yes, fish can acquire various degrees of immunity to a wide multitude of parasites, including Amyloodinium and Monogeneans (skin & gill "flukes"). But it usually requires surviving an infection and then some recovery time to build up the defenses to that particular parasite. Though during an active and escalating infection with such fast replicating parasites fish have not the energy resources to build up immunity.
However, there are other things that can kill fish so fast that they have no time to build up immunity. Those are parasites that generally require treatment. Those things are the reason why I quarantine these days.
If you think otherwise then I dare you to get a few really sick fish with velvet or flukes and toss them into your tank. I don't think you will take that risk...
BTW: my main system has some low level ich and the fish seem to handle it fine. Flare-ups usually happen only when a new fish is added who disrupts the hacking order or due to other significant stressors. It usually goes away on it's own.
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Paul B
Premium Member
I buy from basically 3 different LFss. Some smaller things I collect in the sea like amphipods and grass shrimp. I rarely buy fish because they normally only die of old age. This year maybe I bought 2 fish. A clingfish and a weird pipefish. I can't fit any more fish unless something dies and my pair of bangai cardinals are near the end of their lifespan so they may go this year. I have about 26 fish. I select fish that are odd. I don't like tangs or angels because they are to common (which is the reason for the clingfish) Of course I don't want sick fish but if it has a few parasites, that would not stop me from buying it because I want them to boost the immune systems of my fish.
After so many years you can tell if a fish is going to make it. I also see it eat before I buy any fish.
After so many years you can tell if a fish is going to make it. I also see it eat before I buy any fish.
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