Ich treatment with Seachem: Metronidazole vs Cupramine

[flameangel88]

Does anyone have experience with both in treating ich? Is one better or safer than the other? I know Cupramine is not invert safe but how about Metronidazole? I would greatly appreciate any info on Pros Cons of both.

TIA!

 

[jnc914]

Both Seachem product s are safe to use for ich treatment, however the cupramine is more effective in a single treatment than Metro IMO. I have not read anything regarding MEtro not being invert safe, but I wouldn't take the chance. Good luck.

 

[kevin2000]

I would not use either in my reef tank.

Metronidazole is not considerd a consistent effective treatment for marine ich. Cupramine on the other hand is considered one the least harsh coppers which is highly effective in treating ich and tends to be highly recommended.

 

[flameangel88]

Thanks for the replies. It's FOWLR with Xlg shrimps and clams. Ended up getting Cupramine and the test kit.

Thanks again!

 

[flameangel88]

Cupramine label only mentioned to turn the UV off but doesn't say anything about the skimmer. Can I keep the skimmer on? I'm going to turn it off for now till I get a response here.

TIA.

EDIT: I got the answer at the sponsor forum. I'll keep the skimmer off for a couple of days to take the guess work out of the equation.

 

[BadRoma1]

are going to medicate with those inverts in there?

 

[jnc914]

Cupramine will definitely kill inverts. A UV will break down Cupramine to a more toxic copper that will likely kill all your fish. I never use my skimmer with cupramine as I have found that a good portion of the treatment was removed. Also try to do it in a qt, as it is easier to get a stable therapeutic level. At first I removed everything from my DT and has used the Cupramine but could not get a steady level. However, I took the fish out and have them in 40 Gallon Breeder QTs and it has been extremely easy to maintain a therapeutic level. Cupramine is highly effective in ridding ich, velvet, etc. Plus it is easily removed. Make sure you get a good test kit also.

 

[LargeAngels]

If you are treating in the 180 with LR then be prepared to do daily testing. The calcerous rock will absorb the Cuprmaine, but not as quickly as other coppers.

 

[jnc914]

Before I removed the live rock from my DT, it ate up so much of the Cupramine that there was barely a reading on the Seachem Copper test.

 

[flameangel88]

Thanks for all the replies. There's been more monitoring on internet usage at the office due to bottleneck problem so taken me longer to reply here.

I've a seahorse tank that I don't want to introduce ich to and a 40g that I was QT a injured angel unfornately it was the same time ich started up. Given the situation I don't want to bring my shrimps (which I love very much) to other reefers tanks with possibility of passing ich and not going to bring to lfs since they run copper in their system as well. With 18 angels and 3 butterflies I'd to admin in the DT.

Initially when I noticed ich developed (most likely came from a small Regal which I got the flukes out but didn't see ich) I fed food with heavy soaking of vita-chem and garlic but after a week it didn't seem to help but it didn't boom till yesterday. So I administered the first dose of Cupramine last night and an hour later took the reading and it was 0.2 and by 1am the fishes was loaded with ich so I went ahead administered the second dose this morning. I just tested copper and it's at 0.25 and I see improvement on most fish except the burgess butterfly. Last night the Blue Line angel was hoovering at the top but seems okay now. I'm going to wait till tomorrow before bringing the copper level up to 0.5. Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[LargeAngels]

Just keep a close eye on the copper level as it appears your rock is absorbing it pretty good. Cupramine is excellent. That is why I treat everysingle fish I get with Cupramine and Prazipro.

Did you treat the regal with flukes before it was placed in the 180? If not you will need to think about treating the whole 180 with Prazipro. Usually takes 2 full treatments to get rid of the adults and eggs.

 

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13012317#post13012317 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LargeAngels
Just keep a close eye on the copper level as it appears your rock is absorbing it pretty good. Cupramine is excellent. That is why I treat everysingle fish I get with Cupramine and Prazipro.

Did you treat the regal with flukes before it was placed in the 180? If not you will need to think about treating the whole 180 with Prazipro. Usually takes 2 full treatments to get rid of the adults and eggs.

I treated the Regal for 2.5 days with Prazipro and it was very sensitive to it. Took it out and done a 25% WC and it still didn't made it.

You're right with the LRs it's very difficult to maintain proper copper level. Red sea test kit was reading higher level than the Seachem test kit I got today. Just dosed again and this is the third dose since Tuesday night. I'll check the level again in an hour.

 

[LargeAngels]

What Seachem test kit are you using? The one that is accurate is the one that you dip a little stick into a tiny vial of white powder. I always double check the test kits by adding half and then full dose to a 5 gallon bucket and testing the results.

I've never seen an angel be sensitive to Prazipro so I wonder if there was something else wrong or just in really bad shape.

How are the fish doing now?

 

[flameangel88]

LargeAngels--thanks for the follow-up.

That's the kit I'm using...dip the stick into the small capped vital with white powder and tap the side to shake off the excess before taking it out to stir the water with. Took the reading 3 times last night and the result was barely 0.2. I'll take another reading when I get home and shut off the skimmer and another dose and see what the reading is.

The ich are mostly off the PBT but only improved a bit on the butterflies and still on most of the angels except the blue line which loves to get cleaned by the shrimps.

As for prazipro...for some reason my flame angels and colinis doesn't like prazipro either. My blue line can tolerate it but gets stress. My semi, declivis and burgess butterflies are fine with it.

 

[flameangel88]

I didn't know I'd this many worms till now. Can someon e ID the two types that's in the pictures? They must have came from the last batch that I added.

Thanks.

 

[flameangel88]

Update

Update

Dosing since 7/22 (evening) and after 5 full doses and 1 half dose the copper level is finally upto 0.4 and most of the fish looks clean especially the PBT and personifer. There are still a few spots on the butterflies and the blue line angel on the fins. All three butterflies seem to be more sensitive to the cupramine as their breathing rate is faster than the rest. With ten more days to go and I still need to bring the copper upto 0.5 I sure hope the butterflies can get through it.

Does anyone know if the worms pictured above are the good ones or not?

 

[LargeAngels]

Butterflies should be fine. Are you sure the butterflies aren't just breathing faster cause of the parasites? I've treated many butterflies including burgees and declevis with no issues with Cupramine. I treat for at least 4 weeks.

 

[talon4x4]

They look like bristle worms. They are good until they get too big. They eat all the detritus and keep the substrate mixed up nicely.

 

[FishTri]

Did the cupramine kill the worms?

 

[flameangel88]

LargeAngels: The breathing issue could very well be due to the parasites but comparing the rest of the fish in the tank they just stand out.

This morning the tnak had the 2nd ich explosion and the butterflies are covered with ich (the first one was on the morning of 7/22 and that's what prompted me to use Cupramine). I'd to dose the full amount this morning to bring it up to 0.5 so the count is 6 full-dose and 1 half-dose since 7/22.

I've two questions:
1) Is it normal to have a bloom of ich cycle while copper is in the system?
2) Do you perform WC while you are in the 2-4 weeks copper cycle and re-admin Cupramine?

Sorry for all the questions as this is the first time I've to use copper.

Fish Tri: Eventually the copper will kill the worms as they appear very weak and are coming out of the sandbed. I'm hoping to get to them before they die in the system and so far I caught about a large cupfull. For some reason the bigger ones came out first and now the smaller ones are coming out.