Ich with no white spots?

[xxsevxx]

my royal gramma is going nuts and flashing all the time now. i don't see any white spots on him to show ich but hes showing the behavior. hes trying to scratch himself on everything all of a sudden and its getting worse by the day. He is eating fine and breathing normal, aside from the scratching hes acting completely normal. Here is a picture of him any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Spar]

the white spots are where the trophonts (adult feeding stage) drop off... think of exit wounds. they can stay in that stage for up to 7 days.

so yes it is completely possible he has trophonts on him, either body and/or gills, and is flashing from that.

you should start to see white spots in the next few days, but even if not, could be isolated to the gills.

 

[xxsevxx]

well hes been acting like this for about 2 weeks now. So the behavior didn't just change. Sorry i should have mentioned that in my original post.

 

[snorvich]

Flukes may also cause flashing.

 

[xxsevxx]

Well i just took a really close look at my tank and saw about 4 aipstasia, they're pretty small like 1/4 of an inch. could they be stinging the fish and causing irritation?

 

[Mishri]

My fish are doing the same thing, no spots. Going to start treating with prazipro and cupramine combo. prazipro for if it's flukes, and cupramine incase its ich or velvet(just in the gills).. could be any of those from what I've read.

cupramine would need a qt tank, it's copper, kills inverts.

 

[Spar]

highly doubtful aiptasia are causing it.

try prazipro as a start to at least rule out flukes. can be dosed in your DT, and rarely do fish have issues with it at normal strength.

 

[Spar]

you could also do a short freshwater dip on the fish and look closely to see if flukes drop off. if you didnt want to go straight to prazipro.

 

[xxsevxx]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, as far as a fresh water dip, how long should i keep the fish in the fresh water before it stresses it out too much?

 

[Mishri]

There are a lot of posts on the subject, you can't just say x minutes, it usually depends on the fish. watch for certain activity, they'll lie at the bottom and if you touch them they'll perk up and generally that's considered okay... other behaviors (I believe floating) is considered bad. Do some searching on freshwater dip and read a few different perspectives/methods so you can decide for yourself. can be 1 minute can be 15 minutes.. depends on the fish... I'm not sure how quickly you'll see flukes in the water though. maybe 1 minute is all you need? Not sure, maybe someone with more experience can answer.

 

[snorvich]

Good advice above.

 

[Spar]

most people say they see flukes drop off near immediately. but i agree, do some searches to make sure you are (a) doing it right and (b) long enough to see the flukes drop.

 

[xxsevxx]

Thank you guys, Ill definitely do some more reading before doing anything. Also one other question. is fluke contagious? because only my royal is acting this way, should I worry about it spreading?

 

[ThRoewer]

There are many things that can cause a fish to feel itchy and scratch besides Ich, velvet, brook, and the like. It doesn't even have to be flukes, or crustacean parasites.
Sometimes even bacteria blooms or water quality issues alone will do.

However if it is frequent and increasing quickly I would take a very close look at him to make sure it isn't something like velvet or brook.

A freshwater dip is a good idea in any case to buy some time and see what comes off.

 

[jbvdhp]

There are many things that can cause a fish to feel itchy and scratch besides Ich, velvet, brook, and the like. It doesn't even have to be flukes, or crustacean parasites.

Sometimes even bacteria blooms or water quality issues alone will do.



However if it is frequent and increasing quickly I would take a very close look at him to make sure it isn't something like velvet or brook.



A freshwater dip is a good idea in any case to buy some time and see what comes off.

Bacterial blooms, really? I was having a hard time battling cloudy water that I was assuming was from a bad bacterial bloom for a week or two before my blenny died...

 

[ThRoewer]

I had my percula and fridmani pairs in hyposalinity treatment. During that I had a few bacteria blooms when I removed the carbon filter to add medications and the fish all showed signs of feeling itchy but didn't have ich or the like.

 

[JohnoL]

Interesting... I seem to have the same problem.

I did TTM (5 moves instead of 4 just to be sure) on a PBT and a Queen Angel.

I moved them to QT after TTM.
After 2 weeks in QT, they seem to be flashing.
Neither fish show any visible signs of ich.

Could they just be "scratching'?

P.S. I put the PBT in there as my canary in a goldmine

 

[snorvich]

Interesting... I seem to have the same problem.

I did TTM (5 moves instead of 4 just to be sure) on a PBT and a Queen Angel.

I moved them to QT after TTM.
After 2 weeks in QT, they seem to be flashing.
Neither fish show any visible signs of ich.

Could they just be "scratching'?

P.S. I put the PBT in there as my canary in a goldmine

The canary strategy does not work. If you executed TTM properly you do not have ich. However, other parasites may be present. Especially if a fish were acquired from a source running a low level of copper.

 

[JohnoL]

The canary strategy does not work. If you executed TTM properly you do not have ich. However, other parasites may be present. Especially if a fish were acquired from a source running a low level of copper.

Out of curiousity, why would the canary strategy not work? If ich exists, a PBT would be the most likely to get it?

 

[Lagoon monkey]

my royal gramma is going nuts and flashing all the time now. i don't see any white spots on him to show ich but hes showing the behavior. hes trying to scratch himself on everything all of a sudden and its getting worse by the day. He is eating fine and breathing normal, aside from the scratching hes acting completely normal. Here is a picture of him any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

research ick in google dude you obviously have not done that. 14 day cycle......readddddd