ich??
- Thread starter CKreef
- Start date
Pickupman66
New member
I would save the dip for a last resort. i have had fish make it out, but rarely. know the cause of the ich? new addition? QT tank available?
Fishboy42
Premium Member
Actually, it very-well could have. Any additional stress on the fish could have weakened it and allowed any parasites present in the tank to begin to cause problems for the fish.
Dips are ok for some diseases, but not very helpful for "ich," as some of the trophonts may be buried deeply within the flesh of the fish, thus protecting them from any effects of the dip. Are you sure that this is what you are dealing with?
What kind of fish is it? The only really reliable treatmens for this are either hyposalinity (1.009 g/mL) or copper. QT would be best for these treatments, of course. If it is only a spot or two, many fish will be able to fight it off, but a severe infection will require treatment.
Here's a site with some good information about diseases.
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/fishdiseases.html
Also, the disesase treatment forum here on RC has some good stickies you may want to look at. Hope this helps.
Matt
Pickupman66
New member
I have a watanebei which is closely related to the swallow tail. she had some pop eye and then some fin rot after I added her to the tank. they can be very succeptable to sickenss untill completely established. tangs can be very ich prone as well.
how established is the tank? were any new additions? Hypo works great if you can swing it. how is your water testing?
how established is the tank? were any new additions? Hypo works great if you can swing it. how is your water testing?
If the fish are fairly easy to remove treating in a QT is the best option but the tang and angel likely won't handle copper well. Cupramine would be safest bet if you go that route. Hypo is supposed to work well but requires a lot of work and IMO is a PITA if you aren't setup to do it. If the fish are well established you can use Metronidazole mixed with garlic and selcon(plus Zoe if you have it) soaked up with some freeze dried brine shrimp fed twice a day. It likely helps the fish fight the ich off. I have "cured" ich using this concoction twice in my 90. Both times the ich was brought on by stress with no new additions, all fish were QT'd before being added also. Several others I know have used this with good results as well.
good luck, Chris
good luck, Chris
Freed
It's what it's
The ich has to have been present in the tank for it to show up. Most likely the ich was starting into one of its phases before or during the time that CKreef was gone. And it just happened to show when he/she got back. I don't feed my fish for several days at a time and never see any ich because I have never introduced it into the tank. A fish, coral, invert or live rock must have been introduced at one point or another that had one phase or another of the ich on it to begin with.
Angela Short
New member
You will have to QT all fish to break the cycle or you are wasting time. The others could be carrying it just not in noticable numbers, especially in the gill area where we can't see. The display has to sit fallow for a minimum or 4, better 6, and some go as far as 8 weeks to be 100% positive all the bugs are dead, in every stage. NO fish = No ick can survive and if you always properly QT all new arivals (coral and rock included but not "as" important) you will never have to deal with it and many other diseases like velvet which are common. I learned the hard way not to play russian rulet with not QTing all new arivals. Having a tank wiped out sounds worse and more expensive than the trouble to QT IMO. But this is a highly debated subject and many never get trouble but its just safer to QT I think. Especially as expensive as the fish can be!! The only 2 methods that are proven to work are "properly" done hypo and copper (cuppermine is best but you have to use there test kits, others do not properly measure the cuppermine) You have to stay on the levels and SG daily to work well. The methode fishdoc mentioned has had success but is still in the experimental stages with the metrodizanol. It works by helping the fish fight it off long enouph for all the cycles to run there coarse and die off naturally and not have to remove the fish. Any methode is a PITA and hopefully you can eradicate it and not have to ever deal with it again. Good luck...
just dave
11th in '11
I'd like to add some input in as to the brand of copper medication.
The absolute best one I've ever used( and I've tried all the notable brands around) in the 10+ years I've been using copper is Copper Power. It works and I've never had any type of fish exhibit a negative reaction to it. There is a down side to using it and that is the only test kit that I'm aware of that accurately measures it is a kit from Kordon which they no longer produce (though lucky for me they still sell the reagents.)
IME Cupramine is hard on certain fish and if you have a UV you'd better turn it off while it's present or you'll wish you had.
Now as has been pointed out if you treat them with a copper in a separate tank there is no guarantee that they will not become reinfected at some point when reintroduced back into the main tank. However, removing the infected fish and treating them in a separate system would still be very beneficial. The fish that are infected are vectors that would allow the parasite to increase its numbers even to the point of becoming overwhelming to fish that are presently unaffected.
The absolute best one I've ever used( and I've tried all the notable brands around) in the 10+ years I've been using copper is Copper Power. It works and I've never had any type of fish exhibit a negative reaction to it. There is a down side to using it and that is the only test kit that I'm aware of that accurately measures it is a kit from Kordon which they no longer produce (though lucky for me they still sell the reagents.)
IME Cupramine is hard on certain fish and if you have a UV you'd better turn it off while it's present or you'll wish you had.
Now as has been pointed out if you treat them with a copper in a separate tank there is no guarantee that they will not become reinfected at some point when reintroduced back into the main tank. However, removing the infected fish and treating them in a separate system would still be very beneficial. The fish that are infected are vectors that would allow the parasite to increase its numbers even to the point of becoming overwhelming to fish that are presently unaffected.
Treating my hippo tang with Copper Power seemingly brought on a case of HLLE FWIW. Never had a problem with curamine. JME and Dave has treated a LOT more fish than I have
I have also had ich come out of "nowhere" after several months with no additions(and even then QT'd additions) of corals and well over a year without new fish...this has made me seriously question whether or not what you read about it not allways being present is true or not.
FWIW, Chris
I have also had ich come out of "nowhere" after several months with no additions(and even then QT'd additions) of corals and well over a year without new fish...this has made me seriously question whether or not what you read about it not allways being present is true or not.
FWIW, Chris
just dave
11th in '11
Never had this occur but keep in mind copper is not some treatment that is totally benign in regards to the fish.
It is the most effective remedy but the patient will suffer to some extent as well.
The extent of which is determined by the type that is used, how it is used,the amount used, and how long it is used.
Other factors can come into play as well depending on the type of copper administered and these factors can render it ineffective or cause it to become lethal.
If you like the idea of treating the fish in a separate system but don't like the idea of using copper you could use the tank transfer method as well. I understand it ,if done right, is very effective.
Mikeyjer
New member
Same with me, that has happened to me before when it wiped out my butterfly and I managed to save the Naso Tang. Nothing was added for over 6 months when that happened. What caused it was when I upgraded my lighting and it was heating up my tank pretty good when I wasn't home. I tested it when I first installed it and the temp was fine, I was at home all day watching the temp. But it heated up to over 85 degrees one day, I solved that problem by running a fan beside it at all times. The heating issue caused my butterfly to stress out and ich appears. When the butterfly died, the Naso was very sick from ich as well. It took me over a month to get him better again. He is one healthy fat fish today.
I agree Dave and this is why Cupramine was recommended to me by ATJ (used to be a common fixture in the fish disease forum here a while back, unfortunately he isn't anymore) Here is the page on Cupramine on his site:
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/cupramine.html
Lots of other good info on the site as well.
Chris
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