ick problems, maybe copper?

[dextermoped]

I work at a major chain pet store. The Fish tank systems that we have had copper added in the past but we wont use it as a treatment for the tank. The tank specs are

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40
PH - 8.4
Salinity - 1.014sg

Well our lost rate for salt two weeks ago was 48% and this week is 22% but thats only because we don't have any more fish!I've tried hyposalinity, lowering it from 1.020 to the current level over a week and leaving it there. Now I have to raise the salinity back to appropiate levels because the head honchos our placing a massive order for fish. I've tried garlic and FW dips but that doesn't seem to be working. Do Copper dips work? or should I just bite the bullet and add copper to the main system? Does Copper really mess with puffers, and lionfish that much? Is there some other medicine out there i'm missing? Please help me out because its driving me nuts seeing these guys get pulled from the ocean only to die in our store because of incompetent leadership.
Thanx
Benny

 

[Sk8r]

The problem is that if somebody buys a fish and takes it home AND dumps the water into his tank---that's disaster. You're not responsible for that person's folly, but all the same---worrisome.
You're sure it's ich.
There are some allegedly 'reef safe' ich medicines, but the problem remains...

And of course when people get these fish and let that parasited water get to their home tanks---same lethal problem.
You've got one large dilemma here, and I applaud you for trying to stand in the gap and do something... I can only hope you find a post with a reef shop that knows what they're doing, where your conscientious attitude will be a valued asset, not an 'employee attitude problem.'
I leave it to someone whether there's a net dip that can knock this stuff.

 

[Billybeau1]

The first problem I see is if someone buys a fish from your store at 1.014 and brings it home to their tank, 1.026, the fish isnt gonna make it.

I dont know how your system is plumbed, but it would seem to me you should have two seperate systems. One for quarentine and one for the display tanks. That way when a new shipment comes in, the fish can be quarentined and then when ready, added to the displays for sales. I would keep the displays at 1.025 or so.

It is obvious by your post that your superiors dont have a clue. Or are getting the fish so cheap they dont care about a 48% loss rate. Not good business IMO.

I'm at least glad to see someone in your store is concerned. Go get em

 

[kevin2000]

My 02

An SG of 1.014 isn't really hypo in the context of treating fish for ich ... that requires your lowering the salinity down to 12-14% which is an SG of about 1.009 and keeping it their for weeks. I am unsure whether thats a viable alternative in a retail tank (vs a QT tank) since fish have a difficult time acclimating to higher salinity levels and if your customer takes a fish from your 1.009 tank and places in his/her 1.025 tank theres going to be problems.
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html

Copper is considered an effective treatment for ich ... but that requires keeping the proper concentration of copper in the water column for the entire treatment period ... often 2-3 weeks. Copper doesn't kill ich on the fish but within the water column .. as such I don't see where a copper dip would do anything except stress the fish.

Some sensitive fish don't tolerate copper ... that would include puffers. Cupramine is considered one of the least harsh of the copper products on the market .. many have used on sensitive tangs without a problem ... I would be reluctant to use Cupramine on a puffer ... perhaps others have tried this and will chime in.
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/cupramine.html

Here's a good article discussing ich ... causes and treatment.
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

 

[dextermoped]

cool, thanks everybody for the suggestions. Just to let everyone know, currently we are not selling any fish out of our salt water tanks. Which has landed me in a lot of trouble. I'm a little bummed to find out that lowering the SG to 1.014 didn't do much. I think i'm going to have to go the route of adding copper and just trying to keep my customers informed to never add any stores water to there own. Now if I can just keep my coworkers informed. Some one told a customer their goldfish got ick because they fed it bloodworms and goldfish are vegetarian. Just have to remember the paychecks cash very nicely...
thanks
Benny

 

[Paul B]

I don't know about where you live but in New York I don't know of any stores that don't have copper in their tanks all the time and thats the way I like it. Incoming fish will always carry paracites and copper is a safe, cheap way to keep them healthy until they are sold. I have had puffers and lions in copper many times in copper with no problems. Of course an overdose will kill the fish faster than ich will. I have started three aquarium stores here (one was the largest in NY) they all use copper. If you own a store and you get fish all the time and you don't want to keep loseing them, get some copper.
Good luck.
Paul

 

[kevin2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7524594#post7524594 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Incoming fish will always carry paracites and copper is a safe, cheap way to keep them healthy until they are sold. I have had puffers and lions in copper many times in copper with no problems ...Paul

My 02
Copper is Chemo Therapy and its only effective if you use it at the proper doseage and duration that is required for a particular parasite. Copper has a negative impact on the fish ... lowers its natural immunity and is something that you generally want to avoid when purchasing fish.

 

[Paul B]

Copper is Chemo Therapy and its only effective if you use it at the proper doseage and duration that is required for a particular parasite.

I do agree with this part.

If I ever have the misfortune of having cancer I would want the doctor to use chemo at the proper dosage and duration.

Also If I ever had paracites covering my entire body including my eyes I would want something that would cure me in a day.
I can't agree with the last part about the immune system. My 18 year old cusk eel started out in copper as did both of my 10 year old hippo tangs, my 12 year old puffer and my 12 year old percula clown.
Of course if it scares you, by all means don't use it.

Anyway, it is what it is.
Have a great day.
Paul