ick questions

[gary504504]

Added new fish to my display and didn't quarantine because lfs said he quarantines all his fish before sale,anyway I got Ick so I bought a 20 gallon quarantine tank that I'm setting up now,will use a fish trap to catch all my fish and let the tank set fallow for 72 days,my question is while the tank is fallow do I need to dose ammonia to keep my good bacteria population up since there will be no fish or will everything be fine on its own without fish,I just setup the tank about 3 months ago so I have no inverts or corals at all,was just about to order a clean up crew when the ick broke out,so if I take the fish out there will be nothing but sand and rock in the tank leading me to believe that my bacteria will start to die off,any input would be deeply appreciated

 

[Deinonych]

Just "ghost feed" the tank while going fallow - a pinch of flake food every couple of days should keep the biofilter active.

 

[scooter31707]

+1^^^

 

[Dmorty217]

Just "ghost feed" the tank while going fallow - a pinch of flake food every couple of days should keep the biofilter active.

This or get Dr.Tim's ammonia and dose it as directions call for. The beneficial bacteria will live for up to one year without the presence of ammonia

 

[snorvich]

Just "ghost feed" the tank while going fallow - a pinch of flake food every couple of days should keep the biofilter active.

This. And know that no LFS quarantines properly. If you do not do it, it will not get done.

 

[ThRoewer]

Most fish stores that actually do a quarantine, just observe for 2 weeks. Maybe they add full dose copper. Maybe they even add PraziPro, but that's as far as it goes.
Most don't even do that.

The stores I frequented mostly in the 90s back in Germany usually quarantined new fish for a minimum of 2 weeks. But those stores had started as basement stores of hobbyists.

Here in California I've seen only one store doing some form of quarantine and they stopped it by now too.

 

[Spar]

this is a classic example of the misunderstanding of what quarantining actually is and does. quarantining and treating are two very different things. one attempts to actively remove the parasite/disease for good (treating) and the other is merely a form of isolation in order to observe (quarantine). when a LFS says they quarantine, by all means they may be telling the truth (although generally doubtful, IME) but as stated this has nothing to do with treating for the actual issue at hand. thus, you will highly likely still get the parasite when you bring it home.

and to get technical, even if they say they treat, there is a lot of gray area here as to how extensive the treatment process was or was intended to be.

 

[Deinonych]

The nature of the environment in an LFS (poor bio-security, interconnected tanks etc.) makes it impossible for adequate quarantining of fish. That's why it's best to assume the worst and QT all new acquisitions. Even Diver's Den, who arguably has the best pre-sale treatment protocols, recommends quarantining all new fish.

 

[ThRoewer]

this is a classic example of the misunderstanding of what quarantining actually is and does. quarantining and treating are two very different things. ...

^^^ This!

Quarantine is just observation.

A sufficient quarantine should be as long as the longest known incubation period plus a suitable safety margin. IMO quarantine should be at least 8 weeks.

The primary goal of quarantine is not to cure or save the new fish, but to protect the established and hopefully healthy DT inhabitants from diseases and parasites the newcomers may have.

Of course a good quarantine protocol should include some prophylactic treatments against common or particularly deadly infections.
I consider a formalin bath against velvet, brook, uronema and the like the bare minimum.
TTM against ich is also recommended at some point of the quarantine.
I would not use PraziPro without any indication of a worm infection as I noticed some fish reacting negatively to it. One of the exception to this would be for example all the Valenciennea gobies as those in my experience almost always come with a whole zoo of intestinal infections.

Other treatments are administered as needed. Any treatment of an actual outbreak should reset the quarantine clock.

In essence, you will need quite a lot of quarantine and hospital tanks to do it right. Patience and some experience or at least book knowledge with fish diseases is also requited.

But the 2 weeks of quarantine some stores do is insufficient on any level.

 

[gary504504]

The fish that got the ick all died,my 5 chromis, 1 yellow tang and 1 misbar clownfish has no sign of ick,I guess they have great immune systems and built up an immunity to the parasite, got the dead fish out and the qt tank setup, do I need to remove these fish even though they don't have ick and treat them,or should I just qt every new fish from now on, can the ick survive in the tank with the fish that seems to have immunity, just asking before I set the trap to remove them all

 

[snorvich]

The mortality time line does not suggest ich. If chromis are involved uronema comes to mind first. However velvet is possible and that is your better scenario since it is treatable and has a six week fallow period.

 

[gary504504]

So do I need to remove them to qt them or leave them in,and as stated the chromis, tang and clownfish has no signs of any parasites

 

[Deinonych]

The primary goal of quarantine is not to cure or save the new fish, but to protect the established and hopefully healthy DT inhabitants from diseases and parasites the newcomers may have.

Exactly.

 

[gary504504]

Not to be rude by asking the same question again but,I get the reason to quarantine new fish is to not get the established fish sick,but my question is I know that there is ick in the tank,I understand the life cycle of the ick parasite, but if the establish fish has no symptoms do I still need to remove them and treat them and go fallow for 8 weeks,my fear is that even though they show no signs of ick and are eating well,they still may carry it,preventing the icks life cycle from being broken and allowing it to die off,I don't want to quarantine new fish for 6 to 8 weeks only to have them get ick that has survived in the tank off the fish that has no symptoms, so do I remove the established fish with no symptoms, go fallow and treat these fish to be sure the ick is gone, or can I leave these fish in and the ick dies because they have a built up immunity and I just quarantine all new fish from now on

 

[ThRoewer]

If ich is in a tank with fish it will likely stay there for a long time.

If you have only 2 fish I would go fallow for 3 months or more and get rid of it. At the same time clean the fish up with TTM.

With more fish it will get substantially harder and you may have to chose to have your fish live with it. But this has always an inherit risk of a full outbreak after something goes wrong or a new fish is added.

My advise: get rid of it while it's easy.