If you could start over: Live Rock or Dry?

Just because that pic of the underside of the coral shows some additional growth doesn't mean that it's because of the fact you used live rock. Yeah - it looks nice, but any fully established system will have all kinds of creepy crawlies that live under things. You'll probably reply stating that you never said it was a result of using LR in your system, but the way it was posted simply insinuates it so let's not get offended.
no offense taken.
Incidentally, "creepy crawlies" do much more than just look nice.

Good "creepy crawlies" vastly outnumber the bad on/in good quality liverock.

My personal favorite "creepy crawlies" are the Stichodactyla tapetum "mini carpet anemones" that hitch-hiked into my system on liverock.
 
Live Rock for Zeo Balance for sure, dead rock leads to issues down the line, based on the info and advice I have received... However, dead sand seems to be the best Zeo Balance approach for running a Zeo system, ohh the irony.....lol...

While many think technology with glass boxes is evolving, I see many approaches that take me back to good husbandry. Dry rock is good for all the reasons mentioned above, and my own personal approach to my tank was to seed dry rock with liverock for several months to make the dry live. Many ways to skin a cat in this hobby, let us all remember that:)
 
I started in this hobby 3 1/2 years ago and I used fresh Florida-sourced live rock. I enjoyed the heck out of all of the remarkable creatures that came with it. Everything from beautiful pink porites, sponges, micro stars, bristle worms, and macro algae to feather dusters, crabs, and a mantis shrimp. I think at different points I had every common macro algae -- valonia, dictyota, turtleweed, padina, halimeda, codium, sargassum lobophora, and even some beautiful purple spikeweed.

That said, many of these hitchhikers were also incredibly frustrating and difficult to deal with. The mantis ravaged my cuc for over a year, a nasty red-eyed xanthid crab stalked my tank, and brown plating lobophora overgrew all of my rock and some of my coral. All of these were temporary conditions (all cleared up after 18 months) and now everything is nicely balanced, but it took a long time and a lot of patience.

But I'm very grateful for the experience because it got me interested in these creatures, forced me to research and buy books on these subjects, and has helped me appreciate the diversity of reef life.

Having done this once already though, I'm planning to set up my next tank with base rock seeded with rock from my old tank.
 
I personally dislike FL sourced LR. The flora and fauna on it are not what I am looking for.
 
I personally dislike FL sourced LR. The flora and fauna on it are not what I am looking for.

It's cool to see this thread come back to life... The live vs dry camps seem to be pretty evenly split, in this thread as well as others.

For my own system, as of now I'm planning on using live rock. My reasoning for the decision is that since this is my first tank, I'd like to go the route of biodiversity and hopefully end up with a larger mass of fauna that I can learn from and help to round out the system

I'm very hesitant to purchase sight unseen online, so I've started looking around locally and I think I'm going to be able to source some nice rock with a bit of work/driving. I went and took a look at some very nice marshall island rock, but it had been in a system for about 5 years prior, so I'm too concerned about trapped phosphates to go for it. This weekend I'm going to go look at some Indo and Vanuatu rock and hopefully find something that fits the bill.
 
I'm setting up a new tank and was originally thinking using dry rock, however it seems as dry rock holds a lot of PO4. I've seen numerous threads about this and how peoples tanks have had really bad algae problems after adding it, and honestly that has swayed me from pulling the trigger on it. Now considering LR..prob bali alor from PA.
 
I'm setting up a new tank and was originally thinking using dry rock, however it seems as dry rock holds a lot of PO4. I've seen numerous threads about this and how peoples tanks have had really bad algae problems after adding it, and honestly that has swayed me from pulling the trigger on it. Now considering LR..prob bali alor from PA.

Yea, I've also read (and it makes sense) that alot of the initial algae issues on the dry rock is due to more bare surface area for the algae to colonize...e.g. no coralline on the dry rock.
 
I'm setting up a new tank and was originally thinking using dry rock, however it seems as dry rock holds a lot of PO4. I've seen numerous threads about this and how peoples tanks have had really bad algae problems after adding it, and honestly that has swayed me from pulling the trigger on it. Now considering LR..prob bali alor from PA.

Couldn't this be neutralized by dosing kalk to help bind the phosphate?
 
For SPS, I will add 90% dry with 10% cured live rock with coralline algae. No sand. I would scrape the coralline off the rocks daily with a knife, dose ca, mg, alk manually and run only actinic light for a month. Add a few fish to start with.

Dose vodka daily too.
 
Although i agree that 100% live rock is the way to go for the biodiversity and better overall look and health of the tank, can the existing wild reefs sustain the hobby? Are we doing the worlds oceans a disservice by using 100% live rock? Is there some blend of wild and dead rock that would give our tanks the biodiversity they need while giving the oceans a break? Or is more aquacultured rock the answer, aquacultured in places with less pest than Florida?
 
Although i agree that 100% live rock is the way to go for the biodiversity and better overall look and health of the tank, can the existing wild reefs sustain the hobby? Are we doing the worlds oceans a disservice by using 100% live rock? Is there some blend of wild and dead rock that would give our tanks the biodiversity they need while giving the oceans a break? Or is more aquacultured rock the answer, aquacultured in places with less pest than Florida?

Must be hive-mind, because I've been having similar thoughts regarding live rock collection recently. That's led me into further research regarding this hobby's sustainability and eco footprint as it relates to coral and fish collection.

I agree with you that in the long run, some of the practices we see now, including live rock collection, are not sustainable. My feeling is that over the coming years most countries will be going the way of the marshalls and tonga and we'll be seeing collection bans on live rock as well as fish and coral specimens. The good news is that the market will answer with eco friendly solutions that benefit the hobby as well as local economies, as we're starting to see with coral farming in places such as PNG. The live rock market has been slow to react in places other than florida, but as foreign national and local governments start to see the dangers of unsustainable practices and the economic possibilties for maricultured operations, that should change as well.

It really comes down to an education issue across the board, from hobbyists to the individuals doing the collection. I really believe that, as in most internet forums of any type, the education level you see at reef central is not representative of the hobby population at large....we're really looking at a skewed sample here. The more that people can be educated on sustainable practices, buying aqua/maricultured livestock etc., the faster this hobby will progress and flourish over the long term. Unfortunately that will require the marine aquatics industry to initiate the push, and I'm not sure we'll see widespread adoption of those practices without some pretty serious supply limitations coming about.

Having been to a lot of the places where we commonly see live specimens originating from, I must say it leaves me more than a bit conflicted. They are some of the most beautiful and pristine places on earth, and I feel strongly that we as a group should, where possible, vote with our wallets to help support industry that will preserve them. That being said, no situation is perfect, as evidenced by the fact that I will probably buy wild live rock in the next week or two and hope that my conscience can be offset by trying to stock with sustainable livestock.
 
Great thread! As far as environmental concerns... logic seems to suggest that sustainably collected/farmed LR is more "green" than mined "dry eco-rock". There's only so much rock in them thar hills.
 
I've only used LR for 4+ years, but I'd like to go DR for my next tank with a bunch of LR in the sump. Here's the reason why: Remove Nuisance algae, aiptasia, majano's, and other things/items I don't want. For example, on my most recent tank, I used all LR and did a good job of scouring it for non-wanted creatures. I ended up with a mantis shrimp who is taking down my CUC, bubble algae which i scrape off but comes back, some aiptasia (which I got under control with Joe's Juice), astrae(sp?) starfish which have multiplied 100 fold and are destroying my coralline and GSP's, and a few majano's also cured with Joe's Juice.

Yes I have some fanworms and other "cool" items that pop up, but my desire to go pest free outweighs the desire to have bio-diversity + pests.

This is my opinion and worth as much as yours.
 
If you have ever had Dictyota invade your reef from a piece of live rock the debate of this issue will quickly end in some ways. Live rock is good but you really have to be just as careful when selecting live rock as you are with fish and coral. Proper removal and identification of pests and pest algae is crucial - QTing live rock wouldn't be a bad idea, in my opinion.

My 3rd aquarium upgrade is quickly approaching. Right now I am running a mini system stuffed with previously dry rock. I am basically getting the cycle going before I even begin the new tank build.

In the meantime, I am doing water changes with water from my existing reef. I am beginning to populate the rock with various snails that breed in my system. I am also going as far as scraping off small sponges and other cryptic organisms which currently reside under some of my large chalice and scroll corals.

I think I'm in a great middle ground - getting some of the benefits of live rock, but not all of them, while avoiding all of the bad.
 
I set my tank up with 150lbs of dry rock and foam. Only live rock used in the display was what had coral attached to it from the last tank. Rest went into the sump.

Adding just a few small pieces of live rock will seed the dry. I put maybe 15 lbs of liverock in my display and 6 months later it was all 80% purple.

I will never buy liverock again unless it has something cool on it I want :)
 
too funny!

too funny!

I set out to purchase kewl corals and I end up buying kewl LR if it's available :lolspin:
the last thing I need is more LR!

Nov_2010.jpg


good quality LR and it's associated biodiversity has been so much a key in my success in reefkeeping I never fail to mention the fact.
 
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If you have ever had Dictyota invade your reef from a piece of live rock the debate of this issue will quickly end in some ways.

I've had every algae come and go in my tank, including that one. It's not an issue, with patience and proper husbandry, IMO.
 
I've had every algae come and go in my tank, including that one. It's not an issue, with patience and proper husbandry, IMO.

Yes patience has worked and good husbandry has paid off. When I had little experience and not the best husbandry skills it was a major problem and dealing with this algae was very frustrating. I think people new to the hobby should be aware that some biodiversity can be bad, invasive algae species are a perfect example.

It may not be an issue for you, since you are 20 years deep in the hobby, but it might be for someone new.
 
i would use dry rocks in the display because i would be able to glue and aquascape until i get the desired look and then use what ever live rocks that i have in the sump. i personally don't like too much rock work in the display.
 
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