I'm Back - but feel like a newbe!

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Had been a Reef aquarium enthusiast for years, but due to circumstances I had to give it up 3 years ago. Now returning. I was an active member here at one time - so now here to "relearn" and to get updated info on the hobby. I will be setting up a 65 reef with LED lights, a refugium under it. I picked it up at very reasonable cost from a local who is getting out of the hobby. I will be moving it this weekend and resetting it up. I will list full setup when I have more details- fish and corals will be removed so I will get the sand/some live rock in the display and the rock/cheato and critters in the refugium and all equipment.

I will be rummaging thru the shed/garage for all the necessities ( mixing pumps, salt, additives,etc) and will need some help on how to do some stuff because: I have forgotten how - dam it is tough to be over 50 - you forget stuff too quickly!

I look forward to be active in the reef community again to get help and to help others.

Will update this regularly as I progress to get advice on what is the new/best way to do things.

Thanks in advance..


Update #1

Started to make Rodi water - the TDS meter is reading is 2 to 3 - so not perfect but pretty good for a system that has been idle for 3 years. Just to save time let me ask here instead of reading online 20 different opinions - I am getting some live rock/sand from the existing setup which is healthy and it has good Coraline algae on it - I will be adding some new sand and rock that was in my previous tanks- that is now dry. Should I "cook" the old dry rock = put the rock in saltwater with a skimmer now and let it stay in there for 3-4 days until I get the new setup in the house and ready to be put together. OR because the tank will have to cycle anyhow- just put the dry rock in the display as is - and just wait for the cycle to happen. Obviously - "cooking " the rock is more work and I will have to make an additional 35 gallons or RODI water. Also, the dry rock is not real white- has some algae stains,etc. -SO I heard you can add bleach ( a cup to a 5 gallon ratio I think) to the "cooking" process to re-whiten the rock not to mention the bleach should kill any life that has taken up residence in the rock. I believe the prior thought process was that the bleach will evaporate within 2 days so should not pose any danger when I put the rock into the display. Has that opinion changed?

RODI water now reading 1 on TDS meter.

Additional Question #1 - I have read recently that when cycling new tank you should not use a skimmer right away as it delays the cycling process- would that hold for my situation ( not really new tank setup - but kinda) = as I will have 1/2 old water from the system before breakdown, 1/2 live/old rock and 1/4 live/old sand with a full live refugium.

Additional Question #2: If the salt mix I have is hard can I still use it? Maybe not for the display, but how about for curing/cooking rock?
 
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if the salt mix isn't congealed in to a solid brick, i would still use it. there's a good chance though that during storage it might have solidified. if that's the case, chuck it.

i ran my skimmer during my cycle. it didn't seem to negatively impact anything, and gave me time to let the skimmer break in and to learn to set it. obviously you already know how to set it, but i was starting from scratch. i don't see any harm in running it, or not running it for that matter.

as for the bleaching, from what i understand the bleach will evaporate after a time, but to be on the safe side i would pick up a bottle of something like SeaChem Prime, or another water conditioner, that you can use to neutralize chlorine. also, make sure if you do bleach the rocks, to just get regular bleach. no scents or surfactants, and no "splash free" bleach.

another thing to consider for the rock is giving it an acid bath. i did this on some rocks i wanted to use. it cleaned them up fantastic. it is a little more work, but it will scorch the earth on any stuff still clinging to them. as always, use appropriate caution. only do it outside, wear proper gloves, and eye protection, and have plenty of baking soda on hand to neutralize it after you're done. i got large bags of baking soda used to buffer the pH of pools.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1914426

i would probably also ditch the old sand and use new. old sand can get pretty gross and usually contains a lot of detritus.

since you're planning on cycling it anyways, i would probably add the live rock and dead rock at the same time, along with the sand. might as well get it all in the pool.

welcome back to the hobby, good to see another local. cheers!
 
Mondo -That is a great idea/thread - Have to find some Muranic acid locally now. And proper gloves. A container that will hold up to the acid, and more Baking soda! Some of this rock did have MOJO's/Atipsia and Haleameda ( spell??) on it- but after 3 years I doubt anything is alive - now I will know for sure that they are gone.

Yep- I found more new sand- so will throw out the old sand when I move the tank. Maybe sand a cup only to reseed.

Are you in the PMASI local club - is it still active?
 
i'm a forum member for PMASI, but there sadly doesn't seem to be too much activity. they have the occasional monthly member meetings, and about two years ago had a super awesome frag swap. i've heard some rumors there may be another frag swap in the works, but haven't seen anything for sure yet.

i got my muriatic acid at lowes. they have tons of it there, usually used for etching concrete. i also grabbed gloves, eye protection, and a large rubbermaid bin that i used to bathe the rocks in. plastic is nonreactive, so a standard rubbermaid tub works just fine. i spent a few extra bucks and got a really thick, strong one so the sides wouldn't bow out when i filled it with water.

the large bags of baking soda you can get anywhere that sells pool supplies. mine were 15 pounds and i used a couple of them for about 100 pounds of rock and 3/4 a gallon of muriatic acid. probably used more than i needed, but wanted to be sure it was all neutralized.

make sure when you dump the water out, you dump it somewhere with no plants you care about. don't ask me how i know, just take my word for it. ;)

the rocks came out super clean afterwards. be aware that it will bubble up quickly, so leave yourself some head space on the container and add the acid slowly. an old powerhead works well for circulation.
 
OK - thanks on the info and it is too bad about the club and the local activity- WE had up to 30-40 people at the monthly meeting most of the time back 3 years ago. I guess people move on - like I had to.
 
Welcome back indeed. I'd scope out the live rock you're going to add very closely. Look for any signs of aiptasia, bubble algae, mejanos, ect...I do like the idea of seeding with healthy live rock, but I hate adding pests right from the get go. While there's a good chance they'll get introduced down the road, it's just easier to start on a clean slate.

I'd definitely do a bleach soak of the dry rock just to dissolve all the dead organics and reduce the phosphate and nitrate spike associated with its decomposition. Muriatic acid dipping has served me well with fiji rock in the past. I wouldn't try it at all on pukani rock though, as it's way too brittle to begin with. Up to you though. Acid dipping will reduce the rocks weight and volume, as well as its load bearing strength. I'd only perform this on large dense pieces personally. Up to you

If you can keep as much of the live rock alive as you can, that will help speed things along. Once you get it all in the tank together and some flow going, I'd sill test the water for a month or so to make super sure you're not going to go through a full lengthy ammonia -> nitrate cycle. Bacterial and copepod additives can help speed things along as well.

Best of luck!
 
OK = yes I will definitely check out the live rock in the tank before I use it to "seed". If necessary I will do RODI dip of 24 hours - or just cut off the pests and do a syringe shot of bleach to kill as best as possible. Currently making RODI for the tank. Can I use tap water to bleach the dead rock? And yes almost all my rock is very porous and light - so I was wondering if the acid bath would make it too brittle. I liked the look of the rock on that acid bath thread better before they did the acid bath- it looked smooth afterwards = less surface area= less areas for bacteria.
 
Ted, sup dude? I'll pm my number. I still have a bag and a half of new non-live sand you can have. I can also give you some sand and some rubble from my take to help get things going. I just realized, did you try to call my old cell? It's in the bottom of Lake Aurthur. :lol:
 
Super - I will call u Sat/Sunday - got your PM. Sounds like a trip to New Ken.....

I got pics today of the setup I am getting:

Tank= http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Blue-Professional-ADB18065-65-Gallon/dp/B005J1LNWO - no more pipe out the back or box out the back.

The refugium/sump looks custom with : a Aqua C EV skimmer ( never used one before - I am used to my G3) , a mounted controller of some kind for what looks like an auto top-off system and a media reactor of some kind in it. Does not look like there is any cheato or other plant growth. A bit dirty so cant tell for sure.

It has a Vortech MP40W ( never used one ) the LED's look like ecosystem ( not sure which one or which generation).

I guess I will be reading a lot or switching stuff to my older, not as good equipment. I knew this was going to be "interesting".
 
OK - Pretty much have things under control with 55 gallons of RODI new salt water made with sealed bags of Reef Crystals - I think= it says on the plastic bag "not for resale" so I am pretty sure they are what is left of large box of reef crystals that was part of a group buy the PMAS club did back in 2012.

Cooking the dry rock in bleach now - just used water from the hose as no one commented on my earlier post - used 2 large coolers ( 15 gallons each cooler and put 3 cups of bleach in each). Decided to not do the acid- just felt it was overkill and was worried the very porous rock I am using will get brittle.

ONE thing I forgot was that I have no test kits that are functional, the PH probe is fried, I do have both a Pinpoint PH monitor and PH controller - but no probe - duh.. I cannot find my heaters for my 2 Ranco temp controller units - so using a cheapo heaters ( not submersible) to get the temp up to 79 F. One of the Ranco units failed and actually popped the circuit breaker- so that may have been what caused the tank crash back in 2012 = I wonder if it can be fixed as it read the temp correctly but when I put the heater in the outlet there was a pop/spark and the lights went out (it was not the heater as it worked fine when plugged into the wall). I wonder if the outlet can be changed out in the Ranco unit? Back to the garage!

I did confirm the light is a Ecotech LED unit- the base unit it plugs into says - Ecotech part #10427. So I will have to look that up to see what generation/etc.

Just got a call- the tank can't be moved this weekend- so have more time. Apparently the guy who is taking the fish/coral is not available till early next week. So, Now I have time to get more prepared.

Looks like the only thing I need is a PH probe, a good submersible heater, and some test kits for Nitrate, ammonia, Alkalinity, etc. Suggestion on this are welcome as I am sure that has changed greatly.

I hope the Pinpoint monitor or controller work still. The Controller did not light up at all when I plugged it in- not a good sign - so it maybe gone. At least the regular monitor put some numbers up on the LED screen.

Off to go shopping.
 
for the cycle, since you don't need a super accurate testing kit, the API ones are usually fine. the basic 4 test one will work for tracking your cycle parameters, but i've found that outside of that they're pretty much junk. the nitrate one i had was wonky and would give you different readings based on its mood.

i ended up going with SeaChem tests for nitrate (i don't bother testing ammonia or nitrite now unless i think there is a problem) and it works well. bonus, it has a control sample to check the validity of your reagents.

for my alkalinity i went and bought a hannah checker after quite a while of using the SeaChem alk test. well worth the money, as it is far more convenient than any other alk test i've seen, and from what i can tell very accurate. the results typically match up very closely with the two SeaChem alkalinity tests i have, but is much cleaner and easier to perform.

for my calcium and magnesium i use the SeaChem tests as well. they seem to do a good job. Oddball Pets in Baldwin is my LFS of choice, and they're a SeaChem dealer, so that's the main reason i ended up with mostly SeaChem stuff. no complaints so far though with any of their products.

i've heard others who have been happy with the RedSea test kits as well.

for the heaters i am running two old junky glass ones in my DT at the moment, controlled from my Apex jr, however i have two titanium heaters i am planning on using for my impending tank upgrade.

they're the ViaAqua ones:

http://www.marinedepot.com/ViaAqua_...uarium_Heaters-ViaAqua-VA73334-FIHTTH-vi.html

they seem to work really well, one is currently heating my QT tank at the moment, but i've heard that they will reset to 79 degrees if they experience a power outage. not a huge deal for me since i have the controller that switches them on an off as needed, but something worth noting.

what i like about the titanium ones is that they're more durable than the plastic or glass ones, and i don't have to worry about accidentally breaking them if i drop a rock or tip over a skimmer.

for the rock, i did a bleach step before the initial acid bath, and just used hose water. however i rinsed them afterwards in RODI, then used RODI for the acid bath and the following rinse.

same with my sand. i rinse it in a bucket real good with a hose, then flush it out with some RODI after.

your Ecotech cable may be subject to a recall:
http://ecotechmarine.com/recall

that listing cites the Vortech, but i imagine they probably reuse those cables on other things.

one last thing, i don't know who your normal LFS is, but if you shop at Wet Pets, make sure you know your prices. i've seen them put some insane markups (200+%) on saltwater equipment. so it's good to be a skeptical consumer if you're shopping there.
 
Thanks again Mondo. I am in the north ( Gibsonia) - so do not use either of the stores you mentioned on a regular basis. I have been to wet pets- yes expensive, but very nice store. I am close to Seahorse - Ok for salt fish, but crazy expensive for coral. I usually get coral via frags only from other reefers or at swaps. I plan on a relaxed type of community= Firefish, Anthias ( ones that do not need a large tank), Blue reef Chromis, a few shrimp, a clam and corals. IF all goes well , then maybe a small Copperbanded butterfly way down the road ( 6 to 9 months).

OK will let the rock cook in the bleach for another day. Then rinse with regular hose water , then rinse/soak in Rodi ( my TDS is reading 2 now-so probably needs new filters and DI resin) - But getting a new RODI with the tank- so wont go buy stuff for my Rodi yet.

I will check out the Ecotech recall - thanks for the link.

Update - I apparently have the new cable already. So the guy taking care of the tank must have done the recall. It is the cable for the battery backup.
 
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I have some kind of heater sitting on my shop desk. I'll take a look and let you know tomorrow. I got it for an office tank that had a problem with some flowers that were in the office over a weekend. I shouldn't need it. My chiller has one in it.
 
Thats Ok Jesse- have several cheapo heaters for the making of water. I don't know what type of heater setup is in the existing tank setup- the one thing I did not look for. Has anybody used the low phosphorus Hanna checker? The Alk checker seems to be pretty good from what I have read . So now have to decide whether to get a new PH probe for the pinpoint that may or may not work. or just get a Hanna checker for PH testing as well as the Alk and phosphorus checkers. Price is about the same- although the Pinpoint monitor is constantly reading and will pay for itself vs using up reagent in a Hanna checker unit or any test kit.
 
Update:

Rock was "cooked " in Bleach for a bit over 24 hours with power heads in the containers. I also cleaned my sand via hose water. The sand/rock taken out of containers hosed off again, then left to dry out in the sun ( I spread the sand out over a plastic sheet to dry) - LOL - well as I am in Pittsburgh. NO sun - so the rock/sand got extra rinsing via rain water and then sun dried yesterday and today. Both the sand and the rock look "better" and I hope will be OK- I will rinse both the RoDi before putting int he new tank setup.

OK - regarding test kits, etc. - Have gotten several conflicting opinions both reading online and talking to people in person and on the phone on the Hanna checkers - especially the phosphorous and Alk testers. Some say the Alk checker is complicated- so you might as well us a regular test kit like Salifert as it wont save you time or be more accurate. And the regular low Phos checker/tester is fine and you don't need the ultra low one - other says it is not accurate enough. I found my Seachem Mg test kit- but since it has sitting unused for 3 + years the reagents are toast. Guess what - you cant buy new reagents for this test kit- hmm..

Salifert was the "best " kits back 3-4 years ago - IMO . Has that changed- are they still the only ones that print expired dates on the reagent? Opinions on this subject greatly appreciated as I have been out of the hobby for years now.

Have this order from BRS ready to go ( again opinions wanted - did I forget some thing or is this overkill) :

One Cartridge Refill (1.25 lbs.) DI Resin - Color Changing =$12.99
pH 4 - PINPOINT Calibration Fluid =$0.99 2x= $1.98
pH 7 - PINPOINT Calibration Fluid= $0.99 2x=$1.98
pH 10 - PINPOINT Calibration Fluid= $0.99 2x=$1.98
PINPOINT Probe Storage Fluid=$9.99
BRS Lab Grade pH Probe= $59.99
Hanna Phosphate Low Range Colorimeter HI713=$48.99
Salifert Calcium Aquarium Test Kit= $23.99
BRS pH/ORP Probe Tip Soaker Bottle =$3.99
Salifert kH/Alkalinity Aquarium Test Kit=$19.99
Salifert Magnesium Aquarium Test Kit =$26.99
Salifert Nitrate Aquarium Test Kit=$24.99

Total= $232 = Ouch!! OH ya, now I remember why I gave this hobby up!
 
Well- the best laid plans- Apparently - I am now the owner of all the livestock in the tank I am getting as well. Some softies, 4-5 fish ,etc. - So , what the best way to move the tank and keep the livestock healthy? Fish = a yellow tank, a perk clown, a blue/hippo tang, and a Royal Gramma, all pretty health and hardy. Yes- I know the tangs are too big to be in this size tank.

The way I see it I have a few options.

1) Save as much water as I can and move the fish /corals in buckets in that water to a "Hospital tank" for temporary residents in my house until I get the main tank fully setup and running. I do have a 45 cube I could set up quickly and just use power heads and a heater for temp and flow and do water changes to the water ( 5 gallons per day ) as I wont have any actual filtering going on.

2) Try to move the tank ( with coral, rock , and fish in buckets) and set it back up quickly and then add the livestock/live rock in as soon as the tank is set up and running. I will have to use new sand and just seed it with a cup of the old sand. Obviously the livestock will be in buckets longer this way , but they will only have to deal with one move, not 2. If I had 4-5 air stones and air pumps I would choose this way, but I don't.

How long do you think fish will be OK in a 5 gallon bucket without any air flow or water movement? I think the coral will be OK for 2-3 hours, but no sure about the fish.
 
i've never had to do an in place tank move before, so i can't be of much specific help, but if you're not interested in those particular fish, perhaps some of the LFS in the area would be interested in taking them in for you?

probably wouldn't be able to get anything for them, but it would certainly make the whole transfer process easier.
 
Yes- I have come to that conclusion - Will be stopping in to Aqua-world and Seahorse to see if they will take them and what, if anything , they are willing to give me for them. I think I will just ask for some store credit - maybe they will give me some.

Checked out my ability to get the 45 cube up and running to act as a hospital tank - and I think I can do that. But it is too small to fit all the fish and corals, especially since the blue tang ( 3-4 inches) is not supposed to be in this small of a tank to begin with. SO , I will post "free to a good home" and check at LFS on the tangs, the larger corals ( I think there is a few large softy coral colonies) and anything else that I don't think will be a good idea to try an keep.

I will list the fish and coral "free to a good home) after I identify the coral and make sure I have the fish correct- I did not think I was getting the livestock- so never really looked at them enough to remember what is in the tank.

If anybody locally is interested in anything - let me know.
 
Awaiting call from Aquaworld - fish guy said he would take the tangs but needed owners approval. Maybe get some store credit- he would not commit. Understandably. They are not interested in any coral ( large mushroom= 4=5 inch diameter head, Green star = on a 4-5 inch piece of rock, or colt coral = several colonies on rock- you get the rock as well )- so all that is free to anyone that wants it. I will try Seahorse today - maybe they will take some of the coral and the fish - easier to transport to one place.

Good news. Located a bunch of test kits and other misc stuff - so will now have much less to purchase - Yeah!! good thing I waited on that BRS order.
 
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