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Amoo

Amoo

Member
:bounce3:

Will try to keep this somewhat short, but after a hiatus from the SW hobby due to RL, moving...etc. I'm finally setting up my SW system again. I broke into the hobby 14 years ago shortly after I joined the navy. I had always had FW tanks growing up and being from South FL I love fish. Once I finally had some extra cash to call my own, I set myself up with a 19gal Long (19 long 20 long, whatever they are) FOWLR. It was a simple and inexpensive setup, cheap venturi skimmer, a heater, a hang on filter, small power head and a solid dual t5 light. This tank was home to a nice Picasso clown. He actually survived a trip from FL to Mississippi when I moved there, in the back seat of my car with the tank half full of water. Sadly the second time I tried a move like this my little pretty didn't dare so well and the move was her undoing.

About this time I acquired a 75 gallon tank from a friend at work, complete with stand and custom electrical work, 16 outlets all individually fused, 8 of which have switches. I knew we were getting ready to move to Virginia so it just kind of sat around empty. Once in Virginia we knew we were only going to be there for a year, so SW was out of the question. The tank served as a nice home to some African Cichlids for a while, until George (because that's what you name an ******* fish), fatally wounded all 4 other fish in the tank with him. We were 2 months from moving, so George took the path that leads to the ocean and the tank was again drained.

We moved to SW GA almost 3 years ago. House that needed work, bought a business, had a baby....so life happened. Combine this with there being NO LFS selling SW fish in my area and the tank served as a nice display case for holiday decorations and that was about it. Pretty depressing to be honest. Last week my neighbor told me he saw some SW fish in a pet store in a nearby town. I went down this week and checked it out and as soon as I opened the door, that sweet smell hit my face. I went in and talked to the owner and he told me they had SW for a while, then dropped it for a while, but are in the process of bringing it back. I walked around check his stock, not too shabby for a LFS in the middle of redneckville.

:idea:

Next stop, Lowes, with 3 50 pound bags of play sand in the basket I called my wife and told her she needed to have the Easter decorations out of My fish tank by the time I got home....please. :dance:

So today I installed the sand and filled the tank up with well water.

Calm down, calm down, I didn't forget that much. This was a simple leak check to make sure the tank still held water correctly and to check to see what if any of my old supplies still worked. The tank passed with flying colors, but damn near everything else hit the trash can. I managed to salvage one heater and one powerhead, but outside of that, everything else was DOA. SO tomorrow I'll be draining the tank, awaiting the arrival of all my toys.

So off to Reefcentral I went, put in my username and password, nope that wasn't it, nope that wasn't it, let's try forgot password, ok wrong username, let's try email lookup, ok let's try a different email...oh screw this, just register a new account :clown: .

Now onto the part people actually care about, the order list (If this is seen as spam/advertizing by a mod please just remove this section):

Aquatic Life RO buddy w/ DI resin bed 100gpd
Instant Ocean Sea Salt
Coral Vue Tech Octopus Hang on (I almost went sump, but decided against it)
25 lbs Florida Base Live Rock
API SW Test kit and Reek Master test kit
Refractometer
Aquamana AQ LED 55x3W Dimmable 165W Full Spectrum

I have a working Rio RH14 (I think this is the correct model number) Power Head. I'm going to just let the tank cycle on the one shitty old heater and replace that puppy before I put anything live in there because, yeah heaters.

So what did I miss?

Planned layout for the tank is 2 Percs, a RBTA, probably a carpet, sometype of Goby, and that's about as far as I've got. Any suggestions on compatibility?
 
Next stop, Lowes, with 3 50 pound bags of play sand

Silica based and may have other contaminents and metals in it. If you can replace it with dry aragonite sand I would. It will save you headaches and heartaches battling nuisance algae in the future.

Aquatic Life RO buddy w/ DI resin bed 100gpd

Haven't heard anything bad about it and am considering this one myself.

Instant Ocean Sea Salt

I use it but if you plan on corals in the future you may want to switch to reef crystals prior to that.

Coral Vue Tech Octopus Hang on (I almost went sump, but decided against it)

If you can still go sump I would. More water volume in the system means a more stable system. It is also a place to have equipment out of sight, refugium, and macroalgae for nutrient export.

25 lbs Florida Base Live Rock

I would add more but maybe dry rock. It is cheaper and the base live rock will seed the dry quickly enough.

API SW Test kit and Reek Master test kit

Fine to start but not the most accurate on the market. If you are going reef I would upgrade your kits prior to doing so.

Refractometer

Excellent.

Aquamana AQ LED 55x3W Dimmable 165W Full Spectrum

Sorry, I don't know LEDs well enough to comment.

I have a working Rio RH14 (I think this is the correct model number) Power Head. I'm going to just let the tank cycle on the one shitty old heater and replace that puppy before I put anything live in there because, yeah heaters.

Titanium heater. Koralia pumps or jebeo wp25. Power heads direct flow into one place whereas these pumps are affordable and move a ton more water in a broader area so there is not a bunch of water in one direction.

So what did I miss?

I'm sure there will be more but a thermometer and a skimmer. Mixing station for salt (your rio pump will work well for this). Storage for RO/DI and saltwater(food safe brute trash cans).

Planned layout for the tank is 2 Percs, a RBTA, probably a carpet,( Wait 6 months to a year before adding an anenome for stability of the system or death is likely) sometype of Goby, and that's about as far as I've got. Any suggestions on compatibility
 
That was a mistype on my part, the Rock is just dry rock, I'll be getting my Live Rock from the LFS once I get things rolling.
 
Thanks for the tips on the sand, specifically. I'm a nerd so looked up the issue with silica based sands, then checked the MSDS for the brand I purchased and this stuff will be headed to the back yard tomorrow when I drain all of the well water out of the tank. I was able to pick up 160lbs of fine sand from macrorocks.com for $100 so I can't complain there. I used three bags of play sand and love that volume as I purposely made the bed rise towards the back of the tank.

I will make the switch to the reef crystals, but can anybody fill me in on what the difference is between these two salts considering they're made by the same company? Also am I good to start with the regular, ordered 160 gallon mixture, so 75 gallons worth, plus another 20 if I can pick up a cheap tank this week for a sump, then start using the reef crystals during my first change after cycle?

Assuming I'm safe there and start using the cheaper stuff in my QT tank, will this present a problem when switching fish over from my QT into my display?

The Octopus I listed is a skimmer, I haven't ordered a carbon filter yet, as I haven't done enough research to know how the carbon filters do with a reef setup.

Sadly all four of my Koralia's from previous were dead when I tried them today, so the powerhead is a temp solution. The tank already has two thermometers on opposite sides, so I need not worry there.

Live sand and Live Rock are on my list of buy this week items. I'm going to check for a cheap tank for a sump at the LFS while I'm there and see what I can come up with. If not, that will have to wait for next week after pay day, when I pick up the Koralias.
 
The salt you have is fine for now. For ease of explanation certain trace elements are used by a reef system that a fish only system does not need. These elements cost money to add to the salt mix so they cant just put them in their standard salt mix without charging more for it. The reef crystals has them already in there so you may not have to dose them like you would if you were using the standard salt in a reef tank. I personally haven't switched over to the crystals as of yet and have a mixed reef containing soft corals and lps.

There will be no problems using it in quarantine before moving to the display tank. Likely your lfs wont be using high dollar salt in all of their tanks and you will be suing a different salt mix from them anyway.

If you got the sand from marcorocks I wouldnt worry about adding live sand. The sand will seed from the live rock and become live anyway. Save the money and spend it on something else. There is always something else you want.

By carbon filter I assume you mean a cannister filter or a power filter? I would skip these as they produce nitrates if not cleaned very well, very regularly. Your rock and skimmer is really all you need. I dont even run filter floss in my sump but very occasionally. All you really need to do for carbon is put it in a filter sock in an area of flow in your system. You can also set up a reactor but its not necessary.

You can definately do the tank without a sump, many people do it successfully. I personally just like the added stability that the extra 20 gallons of water and 15 pounds of rock rubble and nutrient export that my chaeto gives me. It just makes the upkeep easier in the long run.
 
Thanks again Crooked. I have a question about the sump itself. Looking through the stickies I can see all of the parts and pieces needed for the sump, but I'm unsure what one of them is. My powerhead should be sufficient to push the water from a sump back into my tank. Looks like I can just drop a pvc tube onto the back of the tank. That's not going to work so well for the line that goes from the tank, down to the sump. What exactly is used here and how do prevent gravity from flooding my sump in case of a power failure?
 
If the tank is not drilled you will need to buy an overflow box. Im not the best on plumbing since I bought my tank used and it was already plumbed. On a drilled tank the water goes into the overflow inside of the tank. There is a drain in the overflow but the overflow is water tight from the rest of the tank. The overflow will drain until air gets in and breaks the siphon but the display tank level shouldnt fall further than the top of the overflow. There will also be a small hole drilled in the return line somewhere above the water line or just below it called a siphon break that will prevent backflow into the return lines in the event of a power failure.

The powerhead will probably not be powerful enough either. it may push enough water out of it to work properly at the pump, but once you factor in head loss (the pressure it takes to pump the water up to the tank through the return lines at a specific distance) it may not actually have even enough power to return the water to the tank. There is a head loss calculator on the main page that will tell you what your specific pump will handle. I put a rio 1400 inot it with vertical feet of 5 feet for your return assuming that your sump would be under your tank and only get 154 gallons per hour on the return vs 401gph with no vertical feet. That is also not taking into account and unions, valves or horizontal feet. It just may not be powerful enough to do it.

I would highly suggest you start a new thread in the do it yourself or the lighting filtration and other equipment forum for advice on this. I only know enough about it to say that I don't know enough to do it myself without a lot more research. Personally if I were in your position I may go sumpless as well.
 
Hi guys...I'm a rookie here and am learning a bunch reading this post. What about a hang on back refugium in his case? I am thiking of going that way as my 55 gallon is not drilled and I cant really do an ove flow box as the tank is up and running with fish...Justa thought...
 
Good for pod production but if he wants to use it for nutrient export I don't think it would be sufficient. For one the volume won't really be enough to grow chaeto effectively. Two is that chaeto grows better at around 6500k of light and most reef light wouldn't get it to grow fast enough for export. You could put a seperate light on it but that would be one more possible unsightly thing in the tank. Heaters, skimmers and reactors can't be hidden in it at that point either. I would say if he wants a fuge go for it, but if he wants all of the benefits of a sump it won't please him. If you add one I would put live rock rubble in it with just a bit of macro algae to let the pods breed.
 
If you can do a sump, do it or you will wish you did. If you make your own use the right silicone and let it cure for 2 weeks. I would also look into drilling the DT.
 
Fuge won't hurt anything. If you have room for both use both the skimmer and the fuge if you want. I would skip the fuge over the skimmer though. Skimmer is more important.
 
Ok back to this thread. I've had the other thread up in the other forum all day and it has amassed a total of 6 views. I guess threads other then LED threads don't garner too much interest in there.

I went and picked up a 20 Gal Long tank today, and ordered a few pieces of 1/4" glass. Below is how I plan to setup the sump, let me know if this is how it is supposed to look:

mdBIn3K.png


I plan on going with this overflow box, TOM Aquarium Overflow, for the simple reason that it will allow inlet, outlet and cutoff all in one section.

According to the pump I have it's a Rio 14HF. The information on the box tells me that @4ft I should still get 660GPH. Since it's only 44 1/2" from my tank to the floor, this should be sufficient I would assume?

So am I on the right track?
 
Hey Amoo, I want to eventually do a sump, and my tank is not drilled either. The Toms over flow you are looking at is the same one I am looking at. Can it definitely be used with a sump other than the Toms sump box? I want one similar to yours...

(Sorry, I'm not hijacking your thread, just wanted to know if you knew)
 
Sgt Jonny Cat said:
Hey Amoo, I want to eventually do a sump, and my tank is not drilled either. The Toms over flow you are looking at is the same one I am looking at. Can it definitely be used with a sump other than the Toms sump box? I want one similar to yours...

(Sorry, I'm not hijacking your thread, just wanted to know if you knew)
Click to expand...

I don't have it in my hands yet, but I am 99.5013724% positive it can be used with any sump. With any plumbed system you have to have an overflow box of some kind which sends water to the sump and a return which returns water to the DT. The TOM's has the tubing on the bottom for outlet then inlet, all the unit itself does is act as a one piece for all. I like the fact that the grating didn't look too large to suck little fishies in and I liked that I don't have to worry about power outages.

I won't have it in my hands until next week, but from everything I read on the unit, it can and should work with any sump. Just get the right size tubes/piping to meet the pieces on the TOM's unit and you're set.
 
Good luck can you keep updates coming. Like I said I don't have a sump and am having problems with red slime. I am not a huge fan of the over flow box but when your tank isn't drilled...what can we do right? I worry about power failure and flooding my living room....but this one seems to have that covered. Thanks for the thread.

Are you going to put a skimmer in there somewhere? I have a HOB that I will have to use if and when I do a sump. You should do a DIY you tube video when you build your sump!!!
 
Thanks Sgt. I purchased this skimmer already:

Octopus hang on. When I got this specific one I knew it was a hang on, but also saw the orientation of the piping and knew that if I had to add additional pipe length, to fit it into the sump, I would be able to do so.

I dunno about doing a youtube video, but I'm already doing a pictures thread for a Marlin I am redoing the stock on, and don't see any reason why I couldn't do the same for building the sump.
 
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