I'm Stumped

Ambition

New member
Last night I left town to visit a friend, and before leaving all of my fish were good to go. I got home at about 12:30 today and my female multibar angel was laying on her side at the bottom of the tank with a very heavy respiration rate. Did a quick run of tests to see if anything might have happened overnight, but all things check out: Salinity 1.024, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5, and pH at 8. The male multibar is doing just fine, and is actually sticking closer to the female like he is guarding her.

So, I did a small 2g WC on their 20g QT tank with slightly lower salinity water to help get some more O2 for the female. During the WC, she perked up and swam around in the water column without issue and her respiration calmed down some. Then soon after I finished, she just dropped out of the water column to the bottom. Now she continues to lay on the bottom breathing heavily. Any ideas what the heck could be going on?
 

HumbleFish

Dr. Fish
Premium Member
Could be so many things... I've seen angels react that way suddenly in copper (if that is the case?) On the flip side, she may have Ich in her gills or even flukes. I'm assuming you aren't seeing any visible symptoms, or have noticed any flashing/scratching?

If I were in your shoes, I would do the following:

1. Perform a f/w dip to check for flukes. This will also provide temp relief for Velvet, if you are possibly dealing with that.

2. If no flukes, do a major WC. Get her out of copper if that is the case. I would actually do a 100% WC on just a 20 gal. Just be sure to match temp & SG.

3. Report back what happens with her next.

Good luck.
 

snorvich

Team RC member
Team RC
Could be so many things... I've seen angels react that way suddenly in copper (if that is the case?) On the flip side, she may have Ich in her gills or even flukes. I'm assuming you aren't seeing any visible symptoms, or have noticed any flashing/scratching?

If I were in your shoes, I would do the following:

1. Perform a f/w dip to check for flukes. This will also provide temp relief for Velvet, if you are possibly dealing with that.

2. If no flukes, do a major WC. Get her out of copper if that is the case. I would actually do a 100% WC on just a 20 gal. Just be sure to match temp & SG.

3. Report back what happens with her next.

Good luck.

And lower the temperature to 76-77F to put more oxygen in the water.
 

Ambition

New member
I've had the two fish for three weeks now and Kevin Kohen personally saw them through their acclimation to captivity over the course of at least 2 months.

Temperature has been at 76F since acclimation.

Right now she is sitting upright, but still breathing heavily. I got called into work today, so I won't be able to do a large WC until later this morning.
 

Ambition

New member
Morning update after a 10g water change...

The fish is swimming normally and respiration has calmed, but is still faster/heavier than normal. One of the pectoral fins has some damage to it, but other than these two things I'm seeing nothing symptom wise. No white spots or patches, no flukes, etc.

The fish were never in copper, and I don't really have a way to do copper safely since the copper test kits I have seem to tell me I have levels too low for treating anything (using Cupramine, and the Salifert and SeaChem test kits). Any suggestions for a course of action at this point?
 

Ambition

New member
I've had issues with FW dips on other fish... I get the water temp and pH matched before putting the fish in. Then the fish stress out in a minute or two. Is there a possible alternative?
 

HumbleFish

Dr. Fish
Premium Member
I've had issues with FW dips on other fish... I get the water temp and pH matched before putting the fish in. Then the fish stress out in a minute or two. Is there a possible alternative?

Do you aerate the water beforehand? Remember RODI is essentially "dead water" and contains no O2, so you have to add that before performing the dip.

The only alternative for flukes would be to just treat the entire QT with Prazipro.
 

Ambition

New member
Yeah, the water is aerated before and during the dip.

I can do prazipro for the entire tank (one of the only meds I have used without any fish adversely reacting). I'll get the treatment going right away and see if it helps.
 

HumbleFish

Dr. Fish
Premium Member
Yeah, the water is aerated before and during the dip.

I can do prazipro for the entire tank (one of the only meds I have used without any fish adversely reacting). I'll get the treatment going right away and see if it helps.

Just another thought...

I'm assuming this pair were DD specimens (since you mentioned Kevin). Perhaps email him to find out what treatments were already used, or any unusual/special observations about these fish. They might keep a log about that.

I know all DD specimens are supposedly dewormed; but I think they soak prazi in food to accomplish this, and that does nothing to prevent reinfection from flukes in the water column.
 

Ambition

New member
If I recall correctly, there is a nontherapeutic dose of copper in DD fish system. You can verify that . . .

These two individuals were kept in Kevin's office reef tank during their stay in Rhinelander. I can double check with Kevin when he gets back from his trip as to whether they ever were kept in the fish system before they got to me, however.
 

Ambition

New member
I emailed Kevin about the ordeal and got a reply today.

He said a chemical of some sort may have gotten into the system some how and probably caused the issue with the angelfish. A larger swing in temps could have also been an issue, but I wasn't around Friday night or Saturday morning to know if that happened. His suggestion was to keep doing WCs that match the tank parameters over the next few days and feeding them well. Because of this, I'm gonna hold off for a couple days on the prazipro since she is back to being herself again and is once again getting plump like the end of last week. I do want to treat for flukes just to make sure and continue observation for a couple weeks after before putting them in their permanent home.
 
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