crazedreefer
In Memoriam
You missed my point completely...Please tell me where I think that QM is a bad facility? or where I even mentioned QM...
but unless you tell me that all LFS buy from QM, then please do not lecture me...
Improve the Hobby by demanding a Livestock Guarantee
- Thread starter aquaticvet1
- Start date
You missed my point completely...Please tell me where I think that QM is a bad facility? or where I even mentioned QM...
but unless you tell me that all LFS buy from QM, then please do not lecture me...
sirjohn
Feeding Frenzied
I agree, Jenn seems like the rare LFS store owner that cares about the quality and health of her fish, as well as the satisfaction of her customers. Just taking the time to actually post in a forum on marine fish puts her miles above nearly all of the LFS owners I've ever dealt with (who wouldn't know Reef Central from Central Station). Sadly, I believe her LFS indeed is indeed a "rare" breed, and I wish it was in Florida and not in Georgia...
Craze: I believe you may be overgeneralizing with respect to wholesalers. Many legitimate wholesalers do offer a guarantee/credit to the retailers. Perhaps not always in writing, but as part of good, sound business practice. To absolutely refuse to credit a good retail customer (LFS) for livestock that died shortly after the wholesaler delivered it would make absolutely no business sense and would be suicide to the wholesalers business after the first few DOA shipments. A good wholesaler knows that there is a risk in the collection and transportation of live animals, and is not going to dump that entire risk on the retailer.
Now, I am sure there are shady wholesalers that refuse to give any credit whatsoever to their LFS customers and if an LFS decides to deal with them anyways (usually because they have better prices) AND pass the cost of the inevitable loss of the fish 100% onto their customers, they DESERVE to be called out on that. I don't believe the consumer should be forced to bear 100% of the risk of loss of a fish, except in instances where it is clear that the customer is 100% responsible (e.g., putting a marine fish in a freshwater tank or something like that). A fish could be fatally hurt anywhere in the process from collection to delivery to the LFS, but not die until the fish is at home in the consumer's tank and through no fault of the consumer (for example, cyanide poisoning).
Craze: I believe you may be overgeneralizing with respect to wholesalers. Many legitimate wholesalers do offer a guarantee/credit to the retailers. Perhaps not always in writing, but as part of good, sound business practice. To absolutely refuse to credit a good retail customer (LFS) for livestock that died shortly after the wholesaler delivered it would make absolutely no business sense and would be suicide to the wholesalers business after the first few DOA shipments. A good wholesaler knows that there is a risk in the collection and transportation of live animals, and is not going to dump that entire risk on the retailer.
Now, I am sure there are shady wholesalers that refuse to give any credit whatsoever to their LFS customers and if an LFS decides to deal with them anyways (usually because they have better prices) AND pass the cost of the inevitable loss of the fish 100% onto their customers, they DESERVE to be called out on that. I don't believe the consumer should be forced to bear 100% of the risk of loss of a fish, except in instances where it is clear that the customer is 100% responsible (e.g., putting a marine fish in a freshwater tank or something like that). A fish could be fatally hurt anywhere in the process from collection to delivery to the LFS, but not die until the fish is at home in the consumer's tank and through no fault of the consumer (for example, cyanide poisoning).
aquaticvet1
.Registered Member
Back for a bit.
No orders get picked at random or are direct shipped from anywhere in California other than QM ( O2O). All of the other Wholesalers supply fish and coral to Kevin for the Diver's Den.
Diver's Den items are fish and corals which no one supplier can purchase enough of to supply us--- and are typically expensive specimens and well cared for by every Wholesaler. Before selling, Kevin quarantines these for weeks to months in our Wisconsin facility. Many on this board have personally inspected this state of the art facility. Please chime in if you have.
Gem tangs would be an example. To the best of my knowledge, Kevin purchased and sold 80% of those which entered the U.S. last year. He utilized multiple suppliers to accomplish that. Kevin has developed a large supply network which includes not only wholesalers but direct imports and distributors as well. We do not and would not depend on any one supplier. That would be bad business and very limiting. We have the largest supply network in the United states. We probably have 20 accounts or more just in the fish and coral supply venue. This would include wholesalers, distributors, transshippers, direct importation and more.
All fish and coral of every value are sold with a 14 or 30 day guarantee----- as a form of buyer protection.
I want every one of my customers to know how and why we select their livestock in the fashion we do. Why spend your money on a secret? For the times that things do not go as planned--- you have the 100% money back, 14 day guarantee to help. I will share this cost with you and as you can read, so will other quality retailers and etailers. Support those that do, avoid those who will not.
We can debate all we want but my bottom line is-- if no guarantee, I would suggest that you avoid the purchase.
Race
No orders get picked at random or are direct shipped from anywhere in California other than QM ( O2O). All of the other Wholesalers supply fish and coral to Kevin for the Diver's Den.
Diver's Den items are fish and corals which no one supplier can purchase enough of to supply us--- and are typically expensive specimens and well cared for by every Wholesaler. Before selling, Kevin quarantines these for weeks to months in our Wisconsin facility. Many on this board have personally inspected this state of the art facility. Please chime in if you have.
Gem tangs would be an example. To the best of my knowledge, Kevin purchased and sold 80% of those which entered the U.S. last year. He utilized multiple suppliers to accomplish that. Kevin has developed a large supply network which includes not only wholesalers but direct imports and distributors as well. We do not and would not depend on any one supplier. That would be bad business and very limiting. We have the largest supply network in the United states. We probably have 20 accounts or more just in the fish and coral supply venue. This would include wholesalers, distributors, transshippers, direct importation and more.
All fish and coral of every value are sold with a 14 or 30 day guarantee----- as a form of buyer protection.
I want every one of my customers to know how and why we select their livestock in the fashion we do. Why spend your money on a secret? For the times that things do not go as planned--- you have the 100% money back, 14 day guarantee to help. I will share this cost with you and as you can read, so will other quality retailers and etailers. Support those that do, avoid those who will not.
We can debate all we want but my bottom line is-- if no guarantee, I would suggest that you avoid the purchase.
Race
GoingPostal
Active member
I'm not really sure why people are debating whether or not fish need a guarentee. It seems like the point being made is stores with guarentee tend to treat their animals better, he clearly stated any fish store, online or not whose does this should be encouraged by hobbyist. If a lfs is not willing to have any sort of guarentee I won't buy from them, I realize that's a risk their taking too but helping to educate buyers on proper care before they take the fish would cut down on losses. There's always going to be some quack who doesn't care if the fish dies, that's why lfs should demand water tests and the animal back.
I order almost all my items though the DRs because I know I'm getting something worth the price and if it doesn't make it I have someone to go to that will do something about it and cares about their customers. I buy my pet supplies there even though they may be pricier than other online stores on some things because I appreciate what they have done for the hobby and llike the peace of mind. Tiffany
I order almost all my items though the DRs because I know I'm getting something worth the price and if it doesn't make it I have someone to go to that will do something about it and cares about their customers. I buy my pet supplies there even though they may be pricier than other online stores on some things because I appreciate what they have done for the hobby and llike the peace of mind. Tiffany
aquaticvet1
.Registered Member
Thank you Tiffany.
This discussion should not keep degenerating into a retail vs etail thread. I do both and am supportive of both.
Kevin spoke with me a few weeks back about so many lfs wanting him to get Diver's Den specimens for their stores to resell. Lfs ( retailers) are very supportive of our quality supply line, and in turn, we support them. Fact is, an increasing number of retail stores are looking to Kevin for supply. My hats off to Kevin for developing the trustworthy reputation he has. Has there ever been a dishonest mention of Kevin within this industry? We all would like to hear it if there has been.
Again, this is not about retail vs etail. It is about both venues, together with the hobbyist developing a new strategy to improve animal health. The " guarantee" is a small step in that direction.
Thanks, Race
This discussion should not keep degenerating into a retail vs etail thread. I do both and am supportive of both.
Kevin spoke with me a few weeks back about so many lfs wanting him to get Diver's Den specimens for their stores to resell. Lfs ( retailers) are very supportive of our quality supply line, and in turn, we support them. Fact is, an increasing number of retail stores are looking to Kevin for supply. My hats off to Kevin for developing the trustworthy reputation he has. Has there ever been a dishonest mention of Kevin within this industry? We all would like to hear it if there has been.
Again, this is not about retail vs etail. It is about both venues, together with the hobbyist developing a new strategy to improve animal health. The " guarantee" is a small step in that direction.
Thanks, Race
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crazedreefer
In Memoriam
I agree with you completely...but my point is that you can not put soley on local fish stores to carry the guarantee, it needs to be everyone...Is it wonderful that you offer 14 days? Yes absolutely, but you have a huge network of consumers and this enables you to do so...
All I can say is that if I decided to not purchase from stores that do not offer guarantees...I would be screwed none of the stores in my area of a guarantee and I can not always drop 200+ on fish at one time make shipping worth it or get the free shipping....so if I ordered two fish from you for a total of 45 bucks, I then have to incur the 40 fee to have them shipped, so that does not make it worth it...You give me free shipping on any order, then I would consider only buying fish from you...unless you want to call up all my LFS and tell them to offer guarantees, I am SOL.
But again, I think there should be a guarantee on all livestock, we just need to figure out how to get all hands that touch the stuff to give a guarantee...
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aquaticvet1
.Registered Member
Free shipping is another discussion and not really on topic. There are quality sponsors right here on Reef Central who do offer free shipping. I would encourage you to use them as I believe that they are good people to work with.
As far as your LFS, things will not change overnight. I believe my "guarantee concept" is sound and it will change the industry in due time.
Good luck-Race
As far as your LFS, things will not change overnight. I believe my "guarantee concept" is sound and it will change the industry in due time.
Good luck-Race
aquaticvet1
.Registered Member
Thank you for the discussions. I have been on this forum for 11 hours and it is time to call it a day. I appreciate all of the input.
Should the discussions continue, please keep things civil---this is a "paid for" sponsor forum and being reviewed by the moderators.
Thank you, Race
Should the discussions continue, please keep things civil---this is a "paid for" sponsor forum and being reviewed by the moderators.
Thank you, Race
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barngeatbayman
Premium Member
Race,
this is the exact reason why I plan on buying most of my livestock from your company. I have been purchasing drygoods and had excellent experiences. I was extremely wary about purchasing livestock over the internet but your firm and a select few others have convinced me that there is much more VALUE to the consumer on the internet.
I was at a LFS store last night before closing purchasing some Cheato. When I got there they were unpacking a bunch of livestock that came in from CA. You could see they were racing the clock to get out of there putting the livestock in the FOR SALE tanks. Some items didnt look so good from the trip across country. The employees and the owner didnt care get them in the tank ASAP so we can go home. The person who owns this store used to be president of a very well known fish book and magazine publisher too. Fish, Inverts and corals can't be treated like you are unpacking a box of pumps!!!!
this is the exact reason why I plan on buying most of my livestock from your company. I have been purchasing drygoods and had excellent experiences. I was extremely wary about purchasing livestock over the internet but your firm and a select few others have convinced me that there is much more VALUE to the consumer on the internet.
I was at a LFS store last night before closing purchasing some Cheato. When I got there they were unpacking a bunch of livestock that came in from CA. You could see they were racing the clock to get out of there putting the livestock in the FOR SALE tanks. Some items didnt look so good from the trip across country. The employees and the owner didnt care get them in the tank ASAP so we can go home. The person who owns this store used to be president of a very well known fish book and magazine publisher too. Fish, Inverts and corals can't be treated like you are unpacking a box of pumps!!!!
oh and something i forgot to add in my post - besides the week guarantee for the SW fish - we also wait to sell a fish unless its eating - we still put it in the for sale tanks but don't put the tags up for them for at least another day or two or longer depending on the fish
Amyandlars
New member
This is why I love Liveaquaria.com. I shop there, with my mind at ease. Yesterday I had a shipment arrive, with 3 Chromis,and 15 Rummynose. The chromis arrived perfect as all ways, but for the 1st time ever I had DOA's. Unfortunatelymost of the Tetra's didn't arrive alive, contacted LA, and got a instant credit to my account with zero hassle. All of the LFS don't offer a guarantee for invertabe or for Marine period. If they don't guarantee for atl east 48 hours, I refuse to buy. But when LA offers 14 days, and all my marine items no matter how cheap, arrive free of fin burn, no ick or fugus, well you have a customer for life!
Thanks LA, keep up the good work!
Thanks LA, keep up the good work!
Amyandlars
New member
Jenn what store do you own?
Once upon a time I went to local only, including Atlanta. I'm from way out of ATL so anything in the metro area I consider Atlanta. Anyway, I went to an Atlanta fish store, they did everything right, even treat the betta compasionatly. So I bought coral there with no worries. Less than 24 hours later I had a brown jelly infection, and lost both corals. Out of my 3 hours drive I got a $150 hermit crab that was a hitchhiker. I lost my guarantee b/c I didn't contact the store within 24 hours.
My point being agree or disagree with a guarantee, this is a hobby. The guarantee is to allow new hobbyist, ease of entry rather than let them think they are throwing money into the wind. If I thought it was going to be about that, I would drain all my tanks today and be done with it, it would be good riddance then.
My other point was, maybe I can try another almost LFS.
Once upon a time I went to local only, including Atlanta. I'm from way out of ATL so anything in the metro area I consider Atlanta. Anyway, I went to an Atlanta fish store, they did everything right, even treat the betta compasionatly. So I bought coral there with no worries. Less than 24 hours later I had a brown jelly infection, and lost both corals. Out of my 3 hours drive I got a $150 hermit crab that was a hitchhiker. I lost my guarantee b/c I didn't contact the store within 24 hours.
My point being agree or disagree with a guarantee, this is a hobby. The guarantee is to allow new hobbyist, ease of entry rather than let them think they are throwing money into the wind. If I thought it was going to be about that, I would drain all my tanks today and be done with it, it would be good riddance then.
My other point was, maybe I can try another almost LFS.
My thanks to L.A. as well ~ a pleasure to deal with them. I've gotten better and even more personal service from L.A.'s customer service department than I've experienced in many LFS's.
Jenn, I've been in your store. Twice. The first time, I was brand new to the hobby and because an ARC member mentioned your store, I thought you were a sponsor. When I gave you my ARC card at purchase, you set me straight quickly enough, saying that you had actually been one of the founders of the ARC but left because it was too political. The second time I went to your store, my husband and I were ignored.
This has been an interesting read.
~Linda
aquaticvet1
.Registered Member
Very nice discussions here on the "Guarantee".
Guaranteeing livestock is not the end all to our conscious. A seller such as me should not just put it out there and hope that it solves all the issues, it will not.
What it will do is hold the INDUSTRY accountable for what we are representing and selling. For what we are taking peoples money for. It transfers some of the responsibility away from the hobbyist and to a seller such as myself. In turn, I will demand and pay for better livestock from the Importers and in turn they will from the exporters. With these small steps it is already getting better.
Historically, livestock death was generally discussed in the same sentence as the hobbyist did not care or was ignorant. Yes, hobbyists do make mistakes just as I do. But I will tell you the VAST majority of avoidable livestock morbidity and mortality occurs in shipping and the improper handling of livestock BEFORE the hobbyist ever places their hands on it. I have witnessed the five gallon buckets of the dead and dying at import. I will not sugar coat it, but I will do something about it. I am a veterinarian.
It is a fact that too many shippings, acclimations, quarantines can be very detrimental to livestock health. It is the number ONE killer.
What else can we do? The more common species can be shipped directly from the wholesaler to the home hobbyist. Direct shipping (dropshipping) to the hobbyist will eliminate at least ONE and if a distributor is involved TWO shippings, acclimations, baggings and mortality periods. It is important to realize that these final stress periods are the most critical and harming because the specimens have already traveled around the world from facility to facility.
What does dropshipping have to do with a guarantee? It is a fact based on seven years of my data that dropshipped fish and coral suffer such a low mortality, that the industry can guarantee them. I have been guaranteeing them for about seven years. The guarantee forced me to get better, buy healthier specimens, improve my packing, provide better customer support and believe in my customer. Bottom line, I do not want to pay for dead fish and it gives me one more reason to care. Another reason for the INDUSTRY to care.
I believe in the guarantee concept. It is a shared responsibility. A commitment from the industry. A message to the hobby that the industry does BELIEVE in what is selling. A message that we care. A proof that we can do better. Simple trust and faith between buyer and seller. A message that "status quo" is no longer good enough.
The problem is not the hobby--- it is me---the industry. I will admit it. And I will do better.
Kevin Kohen the Liveaquaria.com director will be in California next week for our upcoming T.V. series and promotions.. Kevin will be providing a tank setup for "MacGyver," the T.V. secret agent. MacGyver , Richard Dean Anderson is a saltwater enthusiast. Kevin will be there to get things started and provide MacGyver his "guaranteed" livestock. I thank both for caring and participating.
I will be away from the boards intermittently as well but would like to continue to read your positive thoughts. I am on your side here and I truly believe that together we can do great things for the hobby. The industry will conform.
In no way is this a sales pitch. In fact I am providing my competitors one of my sales advantages. If the message spreads it will hurt my sales. I do not care as this is from my heart---- for the benefit of livestock and hobbyist. I care about both and the future of this hobby.
There are many good places to obtain your livestock and I encourage you to use them. Many sponsors right here on Reefcentral as well as quality fish stores all across the company. Politely ask them to please help by providing the written 14 day guarantee. In time the message will be understood and our livestock and oceans will benefit. We will feel better about our hobby.
Please keep this thread going so the concept moves forward. I have said enough, the industry needs to hear your thoughts, ---from the heart of the hobby. I am asking your help, please post.
Thank you, Race Foster
Guaranteeing livestock is not the end all to our conscious. A seller such as me should not just put it out there and hope that it solves all the issues, it will not.
What it will do is hold the INDUSTRY accountable for what we are representing and selling. For what we are taking peoples money for. It transfers some of the responsibility away from the hobbyist and to a seller such as myself. In turn, I will demand and pay for better livestock from the Importers and in turn they will from the exporters. With these small steps it is already getting better.
Historically, livestock death was generally discussed in the same sentence as the hobbyist did not care or was ignorant. Yes, hobbyists do make mistakes just as I do. But I will tell you the VAST majority of avoidable livestock morbidity and mortality occurs in shipping and the improper handling of livestock BEFORE the hobbyist ever places their hands on it. I have witnessed the five gallon buckets of the dead and dying at import. I will not sugar coat it, but I will do something about it. I am a veterinarian.
It is a fact that too many shippings, acclimations, quarantines can be very detrimental to livestock health. It is the number ONE killer.
What else can we do? The more common species can be shipped directly from the wholesaler to the home hobbyist. Direct shipping (dropshipping) to the hobbyist will eliminate at least ONE and if a distributor is involved TWO shippings, acclimations, baggings and mortality periods. It is important to realize that these final stress periods are the most critical and harming because the specimens have already traveled around the world from facility to facility.
What does dropshipping have to do with a guarantee? It is a fact based on seven years of my data that dropshipped fish and coral suffer such a low mortality, that the industry can guarantee them. I have been guaranteeing them for about seven years. The guarantee forced me to get better, buy healthier specimens, improve my packing, provide better customer support and believe in my customer. Bottom line, I do not want to pay for dead fish and it gives me one more reason to care. Another reason for the INDUSTRY to care.
I believe in the guarantee concept. It is a shared responsibility. A commitment from the industry. A message to the hobby that the industry does BELIEVE in what is selling. A message that we care. A proof that we can do better. Simple trust and faith between buyer and seller. A message that "status quo" is no longer good enough.
The problem is not the hobby--- it is me---the industry. I will admit it. And I will do better.
Kevin Kohen the Liveaquaria.com director will be in California next week for our upcoming T.V. series and promotions.. Kevin will be providing a tank setup for "MacGyver," the T.V. secret agent. MacGyver , Richard Dean Anderson is a saltwater enthusiast. Kevin will be there to get things started and provide MacGyver his "guaranteed" livestock. I thank both for caring and participating.
I will be away from the boards intermittently as well but would like to continue to read your positive thoughts. I am on your side here and I truly believe that together we can do great things for the hobby. The industry will conform.
In no way is this a sales pitch. In fact I am providing my competitors one of my sales advantages. If the message spreads it will hurt my sales. I do not care as this is from my heart---- for the benefit of livestock and hobbyist. I care about both and the future of this hobby.
There are many good places to obtain your livestock and I encourage you to use them. Many sponsors right here on Reefcentral as well as quality fish stores all across the company. Politely ask them to please help by providing the written 14 day guarantee. In time the message will be understood and our livestock and oceans will benefit. We will feel better about our hobby.
Please keep this thread going so the concept moves forward. I have said enough, the industry needs to hear your thoughts, ---from the heart of the hobby. I am asking your help, please post.
Thank you, Race Foster
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aquaticvet1
.Registered Member
Guys please, let's hear your thoughts. I want this to become the longest thread on RC. Let's keep the discussion to " the guarantee"
It is o.k. to debate as long as it done in a nonconfrontation and polite fashion. Please avoid sarcasm and emoticons, this is serious. Moderators will help.
This is my paid sponsor forum and you as a hobbyist are welcome to speak up. Please feel free to agree or disagree with my thoughts, politely.
This is an industry changing issue and will not happen without the hobbyist voice. The industry watchdogs, wherever they may be, need to see that we do care and that "Status Quo" is no longer good enough.
From here on I will leave the discussions mostly to you. I have said enough. I cannot always be here for a personal answer so I will rely on those within hobby to provide my voice.
Thanks, Race
It is o.k. to debate as long as it done in a nonconfrontation and polite fashion. Please avoid sarcasm and emoticons, this is serious. Moderators will help.
This is my paid sponsor forum and you as a hobbyist are welcome to speak up. Please feel free to agree or disagree with my thoughts, politely.
This is an industry changing issue and will not happen without the hobbyist voice. The industry watchdogs, wherever they may be, need to see that we do care and that "Status Quo" is no longer good enough.
From here on I will leave the discussions mostly to you. I have said enough. I cannot always be here for a personal answer so I will rely on those within hobby to provide my voice.
Thanks, Race
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JennM
Reefer
Linda - I apologize if you felt ignored. That's certainly not typical in my shop, as it's policy to greet everyone. I'm not pushy so I don't hover... I usually invite people to let me know if they need help or assistance.
I see some of my comments have caused quite a stir, and someone commented that I hadn't been on this forum in "2 years"... well, this particular discussion began on Reefs.org and Race decided to bring it on to his home turf, so I obliged over here.
You won't see me post on the ARC forums, because I don't belong to them. And yes, I was one of the founders of the club, I ran it for the first 15 months, and yes I quit the club when it became too political. The face of the club has changed in the last 3 years or so, but I don't see it as an advantage to be a member or sponsor anymore. I don't wish to hijack this thread any further, but if you do a search in your own forum - I believe it's in the now-locked thread slamming Marine Fish and their more than generous sponsorship, there is a comment by Steve Shindell about the support your club has received from my shop, despite the fact that I am not a member or sponsor.
Bottom line - I stand by my comments and opinions, and whenever I post something on a public forum, I am well aware that it can and will be read by anyone and everyone. If you don't agree, that's OK with me. It's a free country and you can shop wherever you please.
I, personally appreciate the spirited debate I engage in with Race and others. As I said, this particular subject began on the Industry Behind the Hobby forum on Reefs.org. I don't usually post over here, but since Race invited commentary here, I popped on over.
You're welcome to check out the aforementioned forum on RDO and see what you think.
Regards,
Jenn
sedgro
Premium Member
So I have to ask... why 14 days? Why not 10 or 7 or 11? Don't get me wrong, I think a guarantee is great thing but where did the number come from? In human medicine we try to use a concept called Evidence Based Medicine - in a nutshell, it is nice to have some quality, objective, peer-reviewed literature based reason for why we do what we do. I know there is really no "literature" equivalent in the aquarium industry, but seems a study would be really easy to do and you guys have the database to do it. You could look at the loss rates for each species, loss rates for locales, average time to a loss... - seems like there are endless possibilities. Maybe the guarantee doesn't need to be 14 days? It could be more or less. I guess my point is, maybe you should be asking why other Etailers and LFS's don't offer guarantees, not just the lack of 14 day guarantees.
As a hobbyist, I freely admit that when I have lost animals, >50% of the time the fault is mine. They jump, fight with an incompatible fish, or any number of reasons. I sometimes make stupid decisions and I don't expect LA or my local store to be responsible for the loss. If I buy a fish out of the shipping box when it arrives in the store, I don't expect them to guarantee it. However, when I buy something they have been caring for for one week or two there should be no question about the health of the animal. If I take it home and it dies within say a week for no apparent reason, then it is unlikely the fault is mine.
Sometimes things just die and it doesn't always take 14 days. Animals I have bought locally and looked great have eaten and eaten and wasted away. Or one morning they are floating on top of the tank when they were ripping food out of your hand the night before. Nothing is more frustrating though than spending big bucks on a rare fish locally and having it die through no fault of mine. Even the LFS's I frequent who know I have good husbandry techniques have just shrugged their shoulders and said sorry - aka sucks to be you. This needs to change.
Thanks for your advocacy on this issue.
john
As a hobbyist, I freely admit that when I have lost animals, >50% of the time the fault is mine. They jump, fight with an incompatible fish, or any number of reasons. I sometimes make stupid decisions and I don't expect LA or my local store to be responsible for the loss. If I buy a fish out of the shipping box when it arrives in the store, I don't expect them to guarantee it. However, when I buy something they have been caring for for one week or two there should be no question about the health of the animal. If I take it home and it dies within say a week for no apparent reason, then it is unlikely the fault is mine.
Sometimes things just die and it doesn't always take 14 days. Animals I have bought locally and looked great have eaten and eaten and wasted away. Or one morning they are floating on top of the tank when they were ripping food out of your hand the night before. Nothing is more frustrating though than spending big bucks on a rare fish locally and having it die through no fault of mine. Even the LFS's I frequent who know I have good husbandry techniques have just shrugged their shoulders and said sorry - aka sucks to be you. This needs to change.
Thanks for your advocacy on this issue.
john
