Influencing the color of Zoa's?

[CoralNutz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6593689#post6593689 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by awcurl
....What I do know so far is that the host Zoa has not had an adverse reaction to having another Zoa's zooxanthellae injected into it.

Just curious has to how you know you even transfered any live zooxanthellae into the new host? Without know exactly what cells you are supposed to be capturing and from where, how do you know what your sucking out of the one zoa. If you did suck out some zooxanthellae, how do you know it was still alive? Maybe the zooxanthellae grows inside of some sort of microscopic sacs or something inside the zoanthids and could have been damaged during transfer? Did the zooxanthellae survive when you tranfered it from donor to host? Who really knows?

I think this is a great thread and it will be nice to be able to get some scientific insight into this. But I think we need to understand how the zoanthid/zooxanthellae relationship works. (which I don't know, just thinking aloud)

Without knowing exactly how the zooxanthellae effects the color of the zoanthids, I don't think this experiment is going to go to far.

I think it would be great to pursue this, but think it's going to need LOTS of research at a cellular level. Anyone know of any places that have any good info on zoanthid anotomy. Really sucks that all the coral books never even touch on zoas.

Hopefully you don't see negativity in my post, that's not my intention. I am actually very interested in this and that is why I ask this stuff, I think it's very important if this is going to go anywhwere....

 

[smp]

doesn't zooxanthellae live inside the cells of the host?
So, how can you remove zooxanthellae without removing tissue, which is what it sounds like you did. Sure, the zooxanthellae is hitching a ride with whatever tissue/matter you pulled out of the zoo but saying that you're transplanting zooxanthellae isn't very accurate.
Just being a pointdexter over here. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ferventforager]

I am not an expert, but zooxanthellae is just a type of dinoflagellate.


Definition dinoflagellate:

Any of an order (Dinoflag-ellata) of chiefly marine, planktonic, usually solitary phytoflagellates (which have many characteristics in common with algae) that includes luminescent forms, forms important in marine food chains, and forms causing red tides.


It can survive just like any other algae in the water column. I found an interesting column in Advanced Aquarists that may shed som elight on zooxanthellae.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/1/aafeature1/view



Also, I agree with smp that tissue was likely removed with the zooxanthellae. I think that one route to get just zoox would by to cause the zoa to eject its zoox if that is possible. A new question that came to mind is are there different palytoxins that may also be sucked into teh syringe and then injected into the other zoa? Could palytoxin kill another zoa?

 

[awcurl]

My experiment is totally unscientific. Like I said I'm just a hobbyist with a dirty needle. I have no way of knowing if this will work except to wait and see. I assume the zooxanthellae are alive since it was sucked out of live Zoa and immediately injected into another.
I have seen some change as Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve already posted.

 

[ferventforager]

Along these same lines has anyone ever tried to graft two corals together like a person could with a fruit tree? I kno wzoas are soft but could to have part of them sliced off then glued next to each other so that they were toching and survive?

I have some zoas that I do not much care about that I am going to start experimenting with later this week.

 

[SiniStar]

The zooxanthellae does not control the colour of the coral itself. The colour pigments are found in the tissue of the coral, remove the zooxanthellae and you will still see faint hints of colour through the coral. Ever seen a bleached anemone? Notice how it still has traces of its original colour through it even when its bleached? Think of it like a CT scan, you drink a solution, it acts as a dye, take the scan with only the solution, and it will not look very prominent. Get the needle of iodine, and it acts as a contrast, take the scan this time and the image will be alot clearer. Now, relating this to corals, the pigment is like the solution, and the zooxanthellae adds the contrast.

If you were to seriously try doing an experiement like this, I'de suggest actually covering the zoanthid polyp with some substrate for a few days or weeks and waiting until it is entirely bleached (theres a chance it wont even be entirely bleached). Once its bleached, either try doing the whole injection thing (which I think is rather futile, its probably only sucking out the water that gives the zoanthid its composition), or place the polyp right in the middle of a colony of the same species, but with a different set of colour pigments. I'de bet that (if the polyp doesnt die) the zoanthid polyp would look the same as it looked before the bleaching, once fully recovered.

I think all you've done is stabbed the zoanthid with a needle and given it a wound.

 

[doodoobrown]

i must say this is definatly one of the most interesting threads i have read in a while

 

[smp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6607867#post6607867 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SiniStar
The zooxanthellae does not control the colour of the coral itself. The colour pigments are found in the tissue of the coral

I was thinking the same thing but I didn't want to be too much of a naysayer. I too was thinking about anemones when breaking it down. What I have read is that zoox is actually a brownish colour.

 

[EvilMel]

What I have read seems to indicate that it is a combination of the zooxanthellae and the pigments of the coral that give it color.

So the zooxanthellae seem to be yellow-brown but I think there's a large amount of variation in intensity of these dinoflagellates. It seems to be that that difference in intensity plus the coral's natural pigmentation that give the coral it's color. But like I said...I'm no expert at all.

I think there is another advanced aquarist article that is supposed to come out that should help clear this up though.

 

[CoralNutz]

http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66243

This is sort of on the same lines as what you were trying only with sps...

 

[mmd]

Great a zoo with track marks.
Is this the kind of stuff the tang detectives investigate.
Word on the street is if you do not reinject that zoo soon it will go thru withdrawal and crash your whole system.
I have a clam thats addicted.
Next week my LPS will snort some marine snow.
OK, I think I have had my fun.

 

[21Reefman]

Good Luck, This is a very interesting experiment you’re doing! I would like to try the slicing 2 polyps in 1/2, and trying to get them to grow after the graph. If the 1st polyp survives the surgery, then what will the color patterns on the grow-out colony be?? A perfect 1/2'N'1/2, or a totally new design morph??? Could be cool, not the most stable scientific theory though. Worth the try.

 

[willember]

"The Island of Dr. Moreau" on the horizon

 

[awcurl]

Another update on my experiment. The yellow mouth has faded on the Zoa on the left and now only has a small spot of yellow at about 5:00. The Zoa to the right was the actual Zoa that I injected and it has noticeable yellow in the center area where it should normally be dark.