Instant Ocean Biopolymer Nitrate Reducer

[HighlandReefer]

I'm thinking it may take more space to have enough to reduce nitrate than a phosban reactor. What are your thoughts Randy?

 

[NaClH2Opgh]

The cheapest source I have found is here (They get it from China):

http://letsmakerobots.com/node/11563

1Kg for $22 USD (plus shipping)

Do you see any issue with this statement from the "uses"pdf on that site given the fact that reef tanks run in the 78-80+ degree range? :

"Under no circumstances should polymorph be heated above the range 60-65 degrees max. Above this temperature it will become a sticky adherent mass and present the same hazard as hot-melt glue.

I have no idea just wondering.

 

[Flavordsm]

Man if you could pack a phosban reactor full of this stuff.. its on!

 

[HighlandReefer]

I'm not sure about this. I have searched on line for some of the things they are bulding using this product. I can't see how the uses they have used to construct computer parts and what have you would hold up at the temperatures mentioned above (60-65 degrees max). It would appear to me, that this product must hold up at higher temperatures??????????????

An example:

http://staff.bath.ac.uk/ensab/replicator/Downloads/extruder/extruder.html

 

[jptenklooster]

the poly-caprolactone is an oil derived biodegradable polymer that has first been described and patented by a germain group in the usage of denitrification almost 10 years ago. However, all studies performed were done so in fresh water systems and were working pretty well. To my knowledge there is no data on marine systems and personally I have tested them for 4 months and observed absolutely no result. Maybe it works only in the form that Instant ocean is presenting now, by creating very high surface area, I did not try that yet.

ciao,

JP

PS I'm the producer of NP biopellets and not completely neutral of course

 

[Mark]

The 60 Degree temp warning Celsius I believe.

I ordered 28 fl oz of the Friendly Plastic product. I also have 500ml of the Bio-pellets. I'm hoping to do a comparison of the two.

 

[HighlandReefer]

That sounds better Mark.

I am interested in your results.

--------------------------------------------------------------

jptenklooster,

How did you test it?

 

[Mark]

Yeah, the reading I have done implies that for molding purposes, you want to use 60 degree celsius water to "melt" and shape it:

"Pour Friendly Plastic® pellets into the hot water. Let set in water for about 30 seonds at 150°F (60°C) to 60 seconds at 140°F (60°C) until transparent. Pellets will stick together. Wet hands and remove from water."

 

[Mark]

jptenklooster,

With respect to preserving trade sectrets, could you elaborate what the differences are between the bio-pellets and poly-caprolactone? I assume you are using a different biodegradable polymer. I recognize that you wouldn't want to reveal what it is, to protect your product. But perhaps you could tell us what makes the bio-pellets a better solution?

With respect to cost, I think the bio-pellets aren't too expensive overall. It seems expensive to start up with enough for a large tank. But the cost of replenishing yearly should be affordable. I don't imagine that you have to replace it 100% every year.

 

[HighlandReefer]

Well, if it doesn't work, you can always build something out of it. At least that's the way I look at it.

 

[cmbspd]

FYI There is a large amount of research on using PCL as scaffolding for regrowing human tissues. Bacterial interaction with orthopedics is a huge issue so there might be more information in the medical literature on its breakdown by bacteria.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that with any of these products, surface area will determine how much you need to use. I do not know if Instant Ocean uses a specially high surface area material or not.

 

[HighlandReefer]

Marine bacteria mediated degradation of nylon 66 and 6
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=e04867f857405f1e7709208a8c093d72

From it:

Abstract
Marine bacteria (Bacillus cereus, Bacillus sphericus, Vibrio furnisii, and Brevundimonas vesicularis) were shown to degrade nylon 6 and 66 in mineral salt medium at 35 °C and pH of 7.5 under submerged enrichment conditions with the polymer as the sole carbon source. The degradation led to the formation of new functional groups NHCHO, CH3, CONH2, CHO and COOH. Maximum degradation was observed with Bacillus cereus for both the nylons. Average molecular weight decreased by 42% and 31% and weight decreased by 7% and 2% in the case of nylon 66 and nylon 6, respectively, over a period of three months. Differential scanning calorimetry showed a reduction in melting temperature ( of 1 °C) and enthalpies of fusion indicating decrease in crystallinity. Epi-fluorescent microscope of the degraded samples showed surface stripping and groves. The extent of degradation observed with the marine organisms was better than soil organisms reported in the literature.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think the degradation of amides like in Nylon will be very much slower than the esters in polycaprolactone. Low pH alone will break down the polycaprolactone, but not the amides in nylon.

 

[NaClH2Opgh]

Yeah, the reading I have done implies that for molding purposes, you want to use 60 degree celsius water to "melt" and shape it:

"Pour Friendly Plastic® pellets into the hot water. Let set in water for about 30 seonds at 150°F (60°C) to 60 seconds at 140°F (60°C) until transparent. Pellets will stick together. Wet hands and remove from water."

AHHH! Makes more sense. I just needed to get in a European frame of mind. :artist:

 

[Fieroguy19]

Wow, how did I miss this thread?? Ever since I saw the NP biopellets thread I became interested in solid carbon dosing, and started looking up info on biodegradable plastics. I was hoping to identify the material used in the NP biopellets so that I could buy them cheaper. I found a paper where they were testing PCL, PHB, etc. in fresh water on nitrate reduction. At the time, I thought that the NP pellets were made from PHB. I tried looking for a source for PHB but couldn't, so I ended up ordering some PCL (shapelock 500g). Put it all in a reactor on my tank and within 1-2 days all may corals closed up and cause RTN on some SPS corals. I did have the PCL pellets churning pretty good in the reactor so maybe they were releasing some carbon from rubbing on each other. Regardless, I took them out. Maybe I was using to much or had them moving too fast, but either way I didn't have the nerves to try it again. I recently ordered some of the NP biopellets and they have been on the tank about a week. I have seen no adverse reaction in the corals so far.

Also here is a link from another forum on the NP biopellets, although it still does not completely help us with the ID on them. http://translate.google.es/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeewaterforum.info%2Fforums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D66771%26page%3D4&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=es&ie=UTF-8

 

[HighlandReefer]

Fieroguy19,

How much water volume was in your tank you added better than a pound of the Shapelock using a reactor?

 

[Canarygirl]

With respect to cost, I think the bio-pellets aren't too expensive overall. It seems expensive to start up with enough for a large tank. But the cost of replenishing yearly should be affordable. I don't imagine that you have to replace it 100% every year.

From what I read on Aquarium Specialty website, the recommendation is to replace 50-100% of the biopellets every 3 months. For a large tank at recommended volume of biopellets, that is what makes it expensive. Like about $100 a month for my tank.

 

[NaClH2Opgh]

From what I read on Aquarium Specialty website, the recommendation is to replace 50-100% of the biopellets every 3 months. For a large tank at recommended volume of biopellets, that is what makes it expensive. Like about $100 a month for my tank.

I still don't think it's cost effective when you compare it with vodka but on the thread for it they don't need to be topped off that often, more like 50% every 6 months.

"The pelltes won`t dissolve , they are very slow consumed by bacteria , i have mine now for 5 to 6 month`s in use and they only have shrinked like 30 to 40 %.
-Every 6 month`s or so you have to replace or add half the amount.

greetingzz tntneon"

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Put it all in a reactor on my tank and within 1-2 days all may corals closed up and cause RTN on some SPS corals.

Wow, that's not good. Maybe they were coated with something.

Did you stop any other carbon additions?