http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-...887492?hash=item463db38b44:g:EW0AAOSwWnFV-9yh
It is $53 on eBay, but longer shipping.
Intelligent Design / Natural Filtration
- Thread starter Subsea
- Start date
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-...887492?hash=item463db38b44:g:EW0AAOSwWnFV-9yh
It is $53 on eBay, but longer shipping.
Both zinc and copper play important roles in the ocean as micro nutrients but high concentrations are lethal.
All Purpose water soluble Miracle Grow has
Total nitrogen @ 24%
Available Phosphate @ 8%
Soluble Potash @ 16%
Boron @ 0.02%
Copper @ 0.07%
Iron @ 0.15%
Manganese @ 0.05%
Molybdenum @ 0.0005%
Zinc @ 0.06%
Milorganite
"100% organic"
N-P-K Analysis 5.0% Total Nitrogen (N)
2.0% Available Phosphate (P)
0.0% Potash (K-typically is about 0.5%)
4.0% Iron (Fe)
Typical Micro-nutrients
0.58% Sulfur (S)
0.68% Magnesium (Mg)
0.045% Zinc (Zn)
0.022% Copper (Cu)
0.133% Manganese (Mn)
Trace amounts of Boron (B) and Molybdenum (Mo)
This is at the bottom of Miracle Grows website:
Disposal Methods
Empty box: can be offered for recycling or disposed of in regular trash
Unused product: We recommend you use all product. If you do not wish to use, could give it to a friend or neighbor. Otherwise, we recommend contacting your local refuse company to inquire about a Household Hazardous waste pick-up.
What the heck does that mean???
"100% organic"
N-P-K Analysis 5.0% Total Nitrogen (N)
2.0% Available Phosphate (P)
0.0% Potash (K-typically is about 0.5%)
4.0% Iron (Fe)
Typical Micro-nutrients
0.58% Sulfur (S)
0.68% Magnesium (Mg)
0.045% Zinc (Zn)
0.022% Copper (Cu)
0.133% Manganese (Mn)
Trace amounts of Boron (B) and Molybdenum (Mo)
This is at the bottom of Miracle Grows website:
Disposal Methods
Empty box: can be offered for recycling or disposed of in regular trash
Unused product: We recommend you use all product. If you do not wish to use, could give it to a friend or neighbor. Otherwise, we recommend contacting your local refuse company to inquire about a Household Hazardous waste pick-up.
What the heck does that mean???
Misled,
It means that we have too many lawyers. Perhaps we should take Platoe's advice, "First we kill the lawyers"."
OllieNZ
New member
The source of N is most likely urea or ammonia, which technically makes it a hazardous substance.
It is all about the bugs!
It is all about the bugs!
Paul,
You and I are dinosours to this hobby. My first book was written by Martin Moe in the mid 1960's. Just after putting a man on the moon, he said about the reef aquarium hobby and marine biology in general, "It's not rocket science, it is more complicated". I use the KISS principal. Keep it simple, stupid. The bugs know what to do. They self regulate complex nutrient pathways and produce food for reef inhabitants. In a previous career of waste water treatment, we stressed bacteria with low oxygen levels to promote phosphate uptake. In a recent thread, Advanced Topics, on this forum, it was noted that SPS corals survived thermal stress due to higher phosphate concentrations in their body mass.
From my perspective, I am enjoying the ride.
Patrick
It is all about the bugs!
Paul,
You and I are dinosours to this hobby. My first book was written by Martin Moe in the mid 1960's. Just after putting a man on the moon, he said about the reef aquarium hobby and marine biology in general, "It's not rocket science, it is more complicated". I use the KISS principal. Keep it simple, stupid. The bugs know what to do. They self regulate complex nutrient pathways and produce food for reef inhabitants. In a previous career of waste water treatment, we stressed bacteria with low oxygen levels to promote phosphate uptake. In a recent thread, Advanced Topics, on this forum, it was noted that SPS corals survived thermal stress due to higher phosphate concentrations in their body mass.
From my perspective, I am enjoying the ride.
Patrick
Jaubert Plenum details
Jaubert Plenum details
Jaubert Plenum uses a false bottom below sandbed. Until Julian Sprung and Charles Deelbric published Reef Aquarium Volume III, there was little substantiated literature that the plenum accomplished anything. The biggest reason that laboratory test could produce no differrenceis was because of the short duration of test.
This method uses bacteria to perform nitrification then in the depths of the sandbed denitrification chemistry. The use of large substrate, Caribsea Florida Crushed Coral, at 2mm-5mm provides a greater depth for reduced oxygen conditions. This means more faculative bacteria and more denitrification. The single most important thing about this method is to keep detritus from penetrating into sandbed. Janitors at the surface should include micro stars and the two pod brothers, amphipods and copepods. Everyday, I would stir the top 1" of sandbed with numerous feathers coming out to eat: feather dusters and sea apples. To complete the maintenance on this method the sand should be vacuumed once a week.
Jaubert Plenum details
Jaubert Plenum uses a false bottom below sandbed. Until Julian Sprung and Charles Deelbric published Reef Aquarium Volume III, there was little substantiated literature that the plenum accomplished anything. The biggest reason that laboratory test could produce no differrenceis was because of the short duration of test.
This method uses bacteria to perform nitrification then in the depths of the sandbed denitrification chemistry. The use of large substrate, Caribsea Florida Crushed Coral, at 2mm-5mm provides a greater depth for reduced oxygen conditions. This means more faculative bacteria and more denitrification. The single most important thing about this method is to keep detritus from penetrating into sandbed. Janitors at the surface should include micro stars and the two pod brothers, amphipods and copepods. Everyday, I would stir the top 1" of sandbed with numerous feathers coming out to eat: feather dusters and sea apples. To complete the maintenance on this method the sand should be vacuumed once a week.
Like Subsea said "Too many lawyers" :/
From the MSDS for handling Calcium Carbonate "Personal Protection:
Splash goggles. Lab coat. Dust respirator. Be sure to use an approved/certified respirator or equivalent. Gloves" and it has a health hazard of 2 (out of a maximum of 4)
provost_reefers
New member
So, I've got the O.K. to upgrade from my 46 gallon BF to a 5' 150 gallon. this will be the biggest tank I've ever owned and we have no plans to move for 20 years so I really want to get this right. I am still leaning toward the plenum due to desire to have some sand dwelling gobies, lots of bio-diversity and really don't like the look of BB. I will be adding the MM to the refugium with a layer of sand over top. I plan to use short sections of PVC pipe upturned to elevate rock from the substrate for max exchange. Does this sound like a recipe for success?? Any other suggestions on this part?
Also, I have a little time before set-up, do you think I could jump start the cycling process by putting some of the substrate in a bucket with a powerhead and adding a piece of shrimp? The bucket would be outside so wouldn't be heated, would the bacteria be the same?
Thank you for any feedback.
Yes,I would say that miracle mud is part of God's plan.
The reason that I used Plato was because it illustrated that the problem goes further back than Shaespeare's time.
Sand dwelling gobies need substrate of the right grain size of sandy silt. The Jaubert Plenum uses a course substrate to extend oxygen deep into bed. IMO, the DSB discribed by Ron Schmeck would best serve your goals. I see no need foe a plenum if you are using sand silt for gobies. I like your using pvc pipe to elevate rock out of substrate. Substrate in a bucket means bacteria, that is a good move.
Also, with respect to putting substrate over MM, I am not understanding your goal.
provost_reefers
New member
As far as adding substrate on top of the MM, I must have misunderstood your original post where you say you grew the macro 'above that". You also state you have never purchased MM, are you using some other type of mud in your mudfilter?
The DSB worries me more than the plenum, maybe I'll consider jawfish - still very active and fun to watch.
In the situation that you mentioned, bacteria can take more than one path. Instead of producing enzymes to break down sludge, certain bacteria will absorb soluable nutrients instead.
Cynobacteria embedded in coral will produce nitrate when other sources of nitrate are gone. Backup nitrogen source.
Randy Holmes Farley discribes a biofeedback loop in which cynobacteria converts inorganic phosphate into organic phosphate. Then combined with nitrogen fixation produces nitrogen.
Bacteria do it all.
https://www.tlc-products.com/pdf/HOW TLC BACTERIA WORK.pdf
NS Mike D
New member
Thank you. I think I followed that. My take away with cyano (from this and other threads) is that it is not a simple as just removing NO3 and PO4 from your tank to rid of cyano and that chasing zeros can lead to unintended consequences and not the desired goal.
Jason has a thread in which he is posting video and photos from his microscope. He just posted pics of detritus taken from his ATS. It was full of life. I wondered if we really want to remove all that life from our tanks.
I suppose so, but I guess if it (the means of nutrient export) ends up in a bowl of ceviche, then perhaps that has better karma!:jester:
Can you give us that link?
Hello! I've been searching the forum for current info regarding people's experience using the Jaubert plenum, and I've enjoyed your posts. I was hoping you would take some time to help me with a bit of guidance. Thanks in advance!
I'm currently running a 180 gal reef tank that utilizes a 30 gal refugium and a 60 gal sump. I have built a plenum in both the refugium and the sump. The display tank utilizes live rock that I made myself (2 parts FL crushed coral, 2 parts Special Grade Reef Sand, 1 part white Portland Cement). The refugium also contains a glass bowl with approx 2" deep Miracle Mud in which I have growing 6 red mangrove seedlings. The sump has a GAC media chamber, calcium reactor, and a protein skimmer. Lighting is via Orphek Atlantik V3 pendants.
I was motivated to set up the plenum after reading Live Sand Secrets by Bob Goemans. However, I now find that the crushed coral substrate is fused together in the refugium. Interestingly, this does not seem to have occurred in the sump. The only major difference is that the sump is not lit. Have you experienced this issue? What might be the cause, and do you think it is a problem? I worry that the fused substrate might impede nutrient transfer.
I noticed in one of your posts that you mentioned having a 20 yr old setup that utilizes such a plenum, but would not construct a new tank with one. Would you elaborate as to why, and would you recommend that I remove mine?
My tank parameters are:
NO3 2ppm
PO4 undetectable using my Hanna colorimeter
dKH 8.5
calcium 415ppm
salinity 1.025
temp 24 deg C
The tank setup is relatively new; July 2016. Fish were added first; corals only since Jan 2017. I am having issues with browning and poor polyp extension with some SPS. Certain frags have succumbed to RTN. Most LPS and soft corals are fine, with the exception of a couple of chalice corals that experienced local bleaching and tissue death.
Some of my SPS are fine, but taking all of the symptoms together, including loss of 2 red collar snails and the semi-permanent retraction of a third, I feel there is something going on in the system. I am trying to troubleshoot and would like your experienced feedback concerning the system generally and the Jaubert plenum specifically. Thanks again for your time.
I'm currently running a 180 gal reef tank that utilizes a 30 gal refugium and a 60 gal sump. I have built a plenum in both the refugium and the sump. The display tank utilizes live rock that I made myself (2 parts FL crushed coral, 2 parts Special Grade Reef Sand, 1 part white Portland Cement). The refugium also contains a glass bowl with approx 2" deep Miracle Mud in which I have growing 6 red mangrove seedlings. The sump has a GAC media chamber, calcium reactor, and a protein skimmer. Lighting is via Orphek Atlantik V3 pendants.
I was motivated to set up the plenum after reading Live Sand Secrets by Bob Goemans. However, I now find that the crushed coral substrate is fused together in the refugium. Interestingly, this does not seem to have occurred in the sump. The only major difference is that the sump is not lit. Have you experienced this issue? What might be the cause, and do you think it is a problem? I worry that the fused substrate might impede nutrient transfer.
I noticed in one of your posts that you mentioned having a 20 yr old setup that utilizes such a plenum, but would not construct a new tank with one. Would you elaborate as to why, and would you recommend that I remove mine?
My tank parameters are:
NO3 2ppm
PO4 undetectable using my Hanna colorimeter
dKH 8.5
calcium 415ppm
salinity 1.025
temp 24 deg C
The tank setup is relatively new; July 2016. Fish were added first; corals only since Jan 2017. I am having issues with browning and poor polyp extension with some SPS. Certain frags have succumbed to RTN. Most LPS and soft corals are fine, with the exception of a couple of chalice corals that experienced local bleaching and tissue death.
Some of my SPS are fine, but taking all of the symptoms together, including loss of 2 red collar snails and the semi-permanent retraction of a third, I feel there is something going on in the system. I am trying to troubleshoot and would like your experienced feedback concerning the system generally and the Jaubert plenum specifically. Thanks again for your time.
