Intelligent Design / Natural Filtration
- Thread starter Subsea
- Start date
FamilyTank
New member
I'm with these fellas.
I am a laisafaire reef keeper. They are more work with sandbed maintenance. Without strict attention to sandbed cleaning, they easily become a nutrient sink. Particularly with the corse substrate used in the Jaubert Plenumn. The Ron Schmeck method is differrent. It's primary goal is nutrient recycling which feeds corals and fish, live nutritious food. However, I think this can be accomplished with a refugium. I like my Eco-System mud filter for that purpose.
NS Mike D
New member
It's got everything from the pod brothers, spongey mud, ceviche to PaulB!!!
ratherbeflyen
New member
Subscribed, I can't wait to learn more about this.
When I set up my first large system, I was working oversea on a 28 day on 28 day off work schedule. My display tank at 150G sat on a cabinet that would not allow for a sump or refugium. I used up one side of a two car garage and plumbed in a remote refugium propagation system. The refugiums consisted of two 55G tanks and the propagation troughs consisted of two 4' by 8' by 6" deep plywood tanks. When I was home, I feed heavily with the macro and pod population increasing dramatically. When I was gone for 28 days, the refugiums feed the tanks. I had no automatic feeders except for complex food webs that provided nutrient recycling.
PS. Interesting signature. Boredom in mankind may well provide some drive, I don't think it put us on top of the evolutionary ladder. I believe in a Creator that is the author of Intelligent Design. He gave us an inate appetite to strive and grow.
OllieNZ
New member
Unfortunately I don't have the space for such an extensive propagation setup so I'll have to make do with things that will fit in a smaller space like an algae turf scrubber.
I do find the parallels between your method and the above freshwater setup interesting. The gentleman running that attributed his success to the stocking levels of fish/inverts/pods/worms and plants. This is the tank if it's of any interest http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/toms-bucket-o-mud-the-end.14521/
The signature is to be thought provoking (and perhaps entertaining) nothing more, it's based on a quote from my favorite author (Sir Terry Pratchett) in one of his novels.
His novels despite being works of fiction provide a rather astute if a touch satirical representation of life in general. Another couple of quotes.....
“Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of lack of wisdom.”
“The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.”
“It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life."
Thank you for the link. Yes, the parallel is there. I like Tom's set up.
I laughed a lot when I read some of the quotes from Sir Terry Prachett.
"The trouble with having an open mind is people will come along and insist on trying to put stuff in it."
Thanks for the laugh.
I laughed a lot when I read some of the quotes from Sir Terry Prachett.
"The trouble with having an open mind is people will come along and insist on trying to put stuff in it."
Thanks for the laugh.
OllieNZ
New member
And thank you for sharing your experiences with us
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zeemofree
In Memoriam
Do you think my system with dual chambers on to catch particulate matter to keep the main reverse flow deep sand bed clean, will end up being a nutrient sink? I designed it to be a calc reactor/denitrator, with very low flow, It is working very well currently but it is somewhat new.
What do you think about doing a Jaubert system with calcium reactor media for 4 inches and them an inch or two of course sand?
If your dual chambers, equate to a settleling basin, I would think that your up flow DSB would stay in good shape. Might I ask you, what is your main goal in this design?
What size substrate is calcium reactor media? In my use of calcium reactors, I used Caribsea Crushed Coral with very good results.
PS: I thought your Franentank thread was diffenitely outside the box of mainstream thinking. I found it very interesting and will be following your thread.
Also, thank you for your service. I really think that it is neat that you have involved your 5 year old in this fascinating hobby.
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zeemofree
In Memoriam
Calcium reactor media varies in size, my main goal with is to have a more natural system that provides natural replenishment of minerals. I am striving for a tank that ranked care of itself and has superior stability.
Paul,
I have always enjoyed reading your post. You and I have always been a thorn in the side of the teckies.
I have always focused on bacteria as the foundation for a thriving reef aquarium. Your recent focus on gut bacteria to improve fish immune systems intrigues me. During further research, I was amazed to find out that 80%-90% of neuro transmitters in the brains of people are produced in their intestines. Considering that these neuro transmitters effect every aspect of human physiology, it is an easy deduction for me to see enhanced immunity as a natural response to these bacteria.
Keep it coming.
Paul B
Premium Member
Subsea, it is too early for most people to grasp this. They are still in the quarantine and sterile, "don't let any dirt, bacteria, parasites into your tank" phase. Just like us humans were at the turn of the century. Eventually they will learn. I will be gone then, but it will happen. :lol:
NS Mike D
New member
Paul and SubSeas, I was watching food 4 partt series on Netflix, and one was dedicated to bacteria and fungi. Not only do chefs use bacteria and fungi to create awesome flavors and textures, they spoke about the health benefits.
For example, fermentation in making bread from whole wheat (not the supermarket fake stuff) sustained human society for eons. Now we strip out all the good nutrients of wheat leaving empty carbs.
The sterile tank approach reminds me of what we have done to our own food chain.
Paul B
Premium Member
That is correct, but like I said, we will eventually learn. It will take some time though. I am also at fault because I was here at the start of this hobby and I also didn't get it for many years. Now my fish are immune and I never have to go on disease or quarantine threads and basically ignore them.
I try to tell people how I feel we should get our fish healthy and immune but I gave up on this site because it turns into arguments and I am to old to argue. I get nasty letters telling me how I am a detriment to the hobby for telling people these things.
This is a very large site with many people and they all have opinions. Many people started last Tuesday and they are of course correct. So I gave up on here.
I try to tell people how I feel we should get our fish healthy and immune but I gave up on this site because it turns into arguments and I am to old to argue. I get nasty letters telling me how I am a detriment to the hobby for telling people these things.
This is a very large site with many people and they all have opinions. Many people started last Tuesday and they are of course correct. So I gave up on here.
Green Chromis
New member
:fish1: Hi, just did a complete change of the sand in my tank, collected from the outer reefs off the Florida Keys over the last month. With the sand change I removed all the old sand with a lot detritus and mulm. The new sand is full of worms and other micro and macro flora and fauna, and will hopefully enrich my bacteria colonies on the live rock. I believe in adding or changing the substrate every so often just to add new life to my system, plus I am able to redo the rock work, just make sure you wear gloves when handling the rock. Paul does changing sand or adding sand to your system have the same benefits as adding the mud you collect for your system, if not their are plenty of mud banks to collect mud from, that I could add to my fuge. My primary live food for my fish is Sargasso Shrimp and pods, and I like how you maintain your system using live food as a source for beneficial bacteria for your fish. :fish1:
scubadan206
Member
I like miracle mud personally. Any time it comes up in an RC thread, it seems to turn into an argument claiming the creator is just a schiester, and the product is just mud from his backyard or something.
Some people really do seem to have a personal problem with it.
My system is almost 500 gallons with about 375 gallons functioning as various types of refugium areas. Also a frag grow-out and an area for miracle mud.
Daniel. :wildone:
Some people really do seem to have a personal problem with it.
My system is almost 500 gallons with about 375 gallons functioning as various types of refugium areas. Also a frag grow-out and an area for miracle mud.
Daniel. :wildone:
Daniel,
I have an EcoSystem mud filter. To the best of my knowledge, miracle mud provides an inert fine silt that can be colonized by worms. In my application, I allowed unfiltered tank water to deposit detritus as a nutrient source to feed worms and pods. They performed nutrient recycling and feed filter feeders in the tank. This could also be used as an unlit refugium for pods. Some of the original miracle mud that was analyzed showed high iron content. I consider trace mineral addittion of iron a good think in our reef tanks.
I have an EcoSystem mud filter. To the best of my knowledge, miracle mud provides an inert fine silt that can be colonized by worms. In my application, I allowed unfiltered tank water to deposit detritus as a nutrient source to feed worms and pods. They performed nutrient recycling and feed filter feeders in the tank. This could also be used as an unlit refugium for pods. Some of the original miracle mud that was analyzed showed high iron content. I consider trace mineral addittion of iron a good think in our reef tanks.
