interal parasites

[salty joe]

If I remember correctly from biology class, way back when, marine fish constantly swallow water.

If that is the case, putting copper in the water should kill internal parasites, which would be usefull especially for a fish in QT that has IP, but will not eat.

Any comments?

Joe

 

[leebca]

A first consideration in the assumption is that not all parasites are susceptible to copper.

A second: Ingested copper is inhibited to attack the parasites that are susceptible because it has preferentially found fish tissue and organs to take up residence -- copper likes hemoglobin.

Third: Copper affects parasites in their most vulnerable state: their free swimming dinoflagallate ---- not normally found inside of fish or if there, usually not a threat in the digestive track enzymes.

I think that a dose level good enough to get to the internal parasites would be above what the fish could tolerate.

Internal parasites are often best treated by medicines the fish swallow. A weaker approach is to bathe the fish that isn't eating in a mix of the medication. These meds are harmless to the fish and used in doses able to destroy the parasites yet not harm the fish. You're counting on the fish swallowing some medication, and some of the meds can pass through the fish membranes entering the fish's system to get to the offending parasite. For the most part, these meds don't complex with fish tissue, organs, or fluids, but wreak havoc on the parasite. There are exceptions.

 

[salty joe]

Lee,

Thanks for the outstanging reply.

What do you think is the best medicine for internal parasites?

Do you think it is good practice to treat new fish for internal parasites even if there are no symptoms?

Joe

 

[leebca]

Joe,

"Internal parasites" is a relatively large group of possibles.

I treat ALL my fish in QT to de-worm them. I do this because it is so common for captured fish to acquire intestinal worms/parasites. I use Praziquantel (droncit) for this. I usually wait for the fish to be eating well, since this med is most effective when swallowed. It takes one dose only, doesn't upset the fish; doesn't upset the biological filter; and can actually be done anytime & anywhere (QT or display).

If I think the fish isn't eating because of internal worms, then when the fish is in quarantine, I will add Prazipro X to the entire QT followed by appropriate water changes when the time is right.

It's almost a shame that so many people rave about the virtues of garlic and garlic juice, but it really isn't nearly as effective as the above med. They waste time chasing these 'butterfly' remedies. Ingestion of solid garlic has shown to produce an effect on internal/intestinal parasites, but it doesn't always work. What happens is that the digestive track of the fish denatures the protein component of garlic that is supposed to kill off the parasites. Although in controlled laboratory conditions, you can achieve some success with solid garlic pieces, the aquarist doesn't have all it takes to do the job properly.

 

[gdavis]

Lee ,
Where do you get Praziquantel (droncit). How much do you use. I have a Clown Tang that is not eating and he is contantly letting the Cleaner Shrimp go throught his gills and mouth. He has no signs of Ich amd has good color.

 

[leebca]

I'll answer your question Glenn, but are you sure you have the correct diagnosis? I'd hate for you to treat the fish for something that isn't wrong with it, while what is wrong with it gets worse.

Dosage is very little. Dose at 23 mg/pound of fish. Repeat this dose about 7 or 14 days later if needed. One dose usually does it.

You can search the 'Net for it. I believe http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/
has it.

Good luck!

 

[salty joe]

Lee, thanks for the really good information and the link!

Joe

 

[baobao]

Lee,
What do you think of the Ultra Cure Gel PX? To treat possible fish w/ worm, I scoop fish out of water and add about three drops into its mouth.

Also, can this Prazi Pro be used in a bath dip? I don't like to compromise my QT biological filter, especially sine I may have copper medication. If so, what is the procedure?

 

[Bidadari]

I got my praziquantel from Amazon.com. They sell 3 tablets of the 23mg dose(for cat/kitten) for $4-5.

 

[leebca]

baobao,

Use any medication along with copper medication IF the copper medication manufacturer says it's okay. Let them decide that. By the same token, get the go ahead from the Prazi Pro manufacturer to use it during a copper treatment. These manufacturers know their products the best, so I'd rely on what they have to recommend.

Ultra Cure Gel PX contains Metronidazole and Praziquantel. The Metronidazole is particularly effective against protozoa and anaerobic bacteria. Praziquantel, we've been discussing its value. The combination is more broad than just the Praziquantel. I just usually only treat what is necessary to treat. As a prophylactic measure, I would stick with the Praziquantel. If I was treating more than internal worms (e.g., internal bacterial infection) I'd use the Gel PX. Other than this, I have no reason not to recommend it.

Praziquantel does not affect the biological filter -- at least it never affected mine. I believe in putting the fish through the least trauma. Catching it for a dip is a trauma I like to avoid. So, adding the meds to the QT, then doing a water change at the appropriate time, is better for the fish, IMHO.

If you want to use it as a bath, then I'd use about 75 mg per gallon of seawater and leave the fish in for 1.5 hours. I can't vouch for the effectiveness of this, since my successful experience is with oral and QT treatment.