Interested in Vodka dosing, have questions!

[lolgranny]

Adding vinegar to limewater will have the same affect as adding them separately?

Or does Vinegar need to be added alone to have the affects of carbon dosing. I know adding vinegar to limewater makes it so u can supersaturate it, but im unsure if it will have the same benifits as to reducing no3/po4

 

[tmz]

Vinegar or vodka mixed with limewater will still bring in the same amount of organic carbon. The high ph of the limewater at full saturation or perhaps somewhat lower will deter bacteria from consuming it so it's a good way to dilute it for spread dosing if that's your choice.

Personally. I don't mix either with the limewater I dose in favor of bolus dosing the vodka and the relatively small amount of vinegar used but I don't see anything wrong with diluting the dose in limewater and spreading it out . It's just a variation in method.

 

[Paulairduck]

This is awesome info, i appreciate all the input guys!

I think i will go the Vinegar route to start. Now the questions i have:

What brand / type Vinegar?
Do i take my carbon / gfo offline?
Do i continue with my weekly 10% water changes?
Do i dose just like i would Vodka, but its 8x's the amount of vodka. 1ml Vodka-8ml Vinegar
Any good readings on Vinegar?

Thanks again guys!
Dave

Can somebody answer this question??

 

[tmz]

Can somebody answer this question??

1. Brand/type vinegar. Any food grade white distilled vinegar,the usual stuff, with a 5% concentration of acetic acid.

2.Yes water changes should continue.

3. Yes.

4. Lot's of threads on it in the Reef Chemstry forum. The Reef Aquarium Vol 3 by Sprung and Delbeek has nice information , pg 216 forward.

Some of this and a bit more was answered in posts #28 and 29

 

[HighlandReefer]

1 mL of vodka added to 100 gallons to tank water = 0.4 g of ethanol in 378 L = 1.06 mg/l = 1 ppm.

How long that 1 ppm (or 10 ppm, or whatever is really dosed) lasts before dropping isn't clear.

Are there other conversions you need?

1 ppm = 1 mg/l = 0.022 mM = 22 uM

Thanks much Randy for satisfying my curiousity.

So we are talking around the equivalent of 0.18 ml of vodka in a 100 gallon tank could theoretically cause complete loss of ANAMMOX activity should the results I posted act the same way in a reef tank.

 

[Paulairduck]

Thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So we are talking around the equivalent of 0.18 ml of vodka in a 100 gallon tank could theoretically cause complete loss of ANAMMOX activity should the results I posted act the same way in a reef tank.

To be fair, I hadn't focused on the numbers much.

What was the quoted level?

 

[HighlandReefer]

So we are talking around the equivalent of 0.18 ml of vodka in a 100 gallon tank could theoretically cause complete loss of ANAMMOX activity should the results I posted act the same way in a reef tank.

I was using 4 mM ethanol for my calculation, which may be a reasonable concentration based on this for our purposes (perhaps not complete inhibition of anammox activity):

Marine water: "Methanol specifically inhibited anammox with a decay constant of 0.79+/-0.12 mM-1, and thus 3 to 4 mM methanol was required for nearly complete inhibition."

And this:

Fresh Water: "Ethanol inhibited the anammox reaction by 30% at 2 mM."


Methanol has been shown to reduce anammox activity at lower concentrations than ethanol in studies, but not by much.

Unfortunately, I do not have complete access to other studies where they claimed ethanol caused complete inhibition of anammox activity in fresh water studies to see what level that was, but the statement was that methanol cause it at a slightly lower level.

 

[autodave]

Can somebody answer this question??

1. Brand/type vinegar. Any food grade white distilled vinegar,the usual stuff, with a 5% concentration of acetic acid.

2.Yes water changes should continue.

3. Yes.

4. Lot's of threads on it in the Reef Chemstry forum. The Reef Aquarium Vol 3 by Sprung and Delbeek has nice information , pg 216 forward.

Some of this and a bit more was answered in posts #28 and 29

Still run Carbon,correct?

 

[HighlandReefer]

I would run GAC with any sort of carbon dosing.

Carbon dosing increases bacterial populations which do produce more toxins in your tank and GAC will help to remove these.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Unfortunately, I do not have complete access to other studies where they claimed ethanol caused complete inhibition of anammox activity in fresh water studies to see what level that was, but the statement was that methanol cause it at a slightly lower level.

Thanks, Cliff.

Maybe email me links to them and I may be able to get them if you think there are some good ones.

 

[HighlandReefer]

Great,

Thanks Randy in advance.

 

[machodik]

Also, there is literature out there that suggests vodka inhibits anaerobic bacteria growth.

Josh

Is this true? If this is correct then I believed this is the reason why My Nitrate reactor (JNS NR1 with Aqua medic's Denniballs) after combined dosign with VODKA, WATER FROM TEH SAID REACTOR have been found to have high NO3 level to be 20ppm (before is zero).

Can anyone clarify me with this?

 

[fishflorist]

Are you having better results with the 2 rather then just vodka? I appreciate the insight! I will have to look into this more!

I do not have much feeling now since I just switched.
But I believe it will be good , the only reason I switch to vinegar is Randy and tmz and Highlander Reefer use it ... :fun2:

I use glacial acetic acid and dilute too 10% by RO which is twice concentrated than vinegar.
The reason I do not use vinegar from supermarket is I am afraid it may have some unknown impurities. Food safty is somehow a problem in China now. I found ingredients on vinegar bottle said " water, acetic acid " I feel that "water" must be tap water or something, so I choose dilute glacial acetic acid myself, at least I can see impurity concentration on the glacial acetic acid bottle.

 

[tmz]

Still run Carbon,correct?

Sorry I missed that one.Yes , as organics are being added it's needed perhaps more than before ,imo. GFO , may or may not be necessary depending on how low PO4 goes without it out it relative to your goal.