Interesting thread

***Let me preface this with that I am not trying to be disrespectful or diminutive to Mr. Smith, I do actually have respect for some of what he has done, and I would looooove to pick his brain and to have been able to have seen what he has seen. In most respect he is a wealth of knowledge.***

There is no way we will ever be able to get the whole picture.
We will never know the whole truth.

Walt said some pretty slanderous stuff to the other parties involved in that thread.

I trust him just as much as a politician.
But I am a skeptic and this is all my opinion.
What is done is done, is done.


This year alone we have privately spent over 20k to bring scientist in to study the impact our industry has on the reef ...... not required but I thought is was important.


Oh you are right it is not required at all !
We don't need 20k in scientist to tell us deforestation is bad.
Or 20k to tell us mining leaves our streams and rivers polluted and on the brink of death.

You honestly think in 26 years(as long as I have been alive) you have not done more than 20k of damage to the environment ?

How many Tons of rock would you say was exported by your company alone ?
How many thousands of corals ?
How many thousands of fish ?

You are going to honestly say:
I have hardly lined my pockets but I have spent almost everything I make on trying to show by example how to do things the right way concerning our environment

You are not making a profit ?
You are not making a comfortable living ?
Will you be able to retire ?
Is your family starving ?

The spin and fluff doesn't fool everyone.
 
I am sorry to have gotten involved with this thread.
It is now obvious to me that those who do not want to believe will neither do the research to find out if what they fear is true or take the time to learn from those who have been there and have tried to help.
Letmegrow, it is sad that you base your opinion on suspicion rather than really getting to know the issue of which you condemn so freely.
Of course there are many critics of my work but it seems that every time I face one of these critics I soon learn that they have never seen a collecting station, never been to a South Pacific reef, never seen my facilities and have never met me before to ask me those very direct questions posed here. Those that have soon learn to be fact what I have been saying for years and have become close friends.
I do not know most of those who pit themselves against me but I am certain that almost every one of them has at least one reef tank which, in my humble opinion, makes them a bit of hypocrite. It would be very rare to find a reef tank that is 100% cultured although that has been my dream since 1998 and I am doing something about it. I have preached this dream at many conferences you all attend and still the overall acceptance for aquacultured corals and rock at hobby level remains low, growing but low.
Letmegrow, you sound like an intelligent person so really, try to learn before nailing to the cross. Like I said, I have many critics but I can also say that I have many friends that have been to my facility and dove with me or my crew and we have great respect for each other. Those friends would include Dr. Bruce Carlson, Bob Fenner, Eric Borneman, Dr. Richard Pile, Dr. Gregor Hodgson (reef check), Dr. Sandy Troutwien (aquarium of the Pacific) to name a few and also the BBC, The Discovery Channel, French Documentary and many industry authors I count as friends such as Delbeek, Sprung, M. Moe, Veron, Knop, Calfo, S. Michael and I am sure there are some I forget at this moment. This is not an attempt at name dropping these are my colleagues who do understand and have some respect for my work, I am sure you know of some of them.
The fact is we have been growing coral and making rock since 1998. We currently grow an average of 20 new pieces for every one that we export from the wild. We have wild reef growing all around our farm sites that was once barren.
The fact is that we are making over 7000 pieces of live rock per week even when the studies show that our harvest is sustainable. We are keeping even with the rock % meaning that we plant as much as we take. By our calculations 7000 pieces of rock would be somewhere around 600 boxes. We ship around 500-600 boxes of wild harvested rock per week but only about 100-125 of cultured rock so you can see that we are building up a back log of rock we have placed in the sea making both of our harvest less than zero impact for the future.
To focus on the measly 20k we are spending on just one study is insignificant compared to the amount we actually spend on developing our aquaculture and the materials and labor it takes for zero profit until now and I don’t know if ever.
This particular study we are talking about here is commissioned by us because the new government has no money to spend on it. I think it is important for our industry and resource to have a non-detriment finding and a collection area management plan (CAMP).
The CAMP is reviewed every few years by scientist that study reef ecology. This report has been done (and a new one on the way) by Ed Lovell from Bio Research in Fiji and a professor at the University of the South Pacific commissioned by us but not required.
The non-detriment finding will be a very detailed and lengthily report spanning many months and covering every specie we export. This work will be carried out by a team of environmentalist from the scientific council in Fiji and headed by one of the professors in marine studies at the University of the South Pacific (not Lovell).
I have said publicly for several years that I have offered to reduce 20% of my rock quota each year starting back then and the rest of the companies wanted to have me crucified. The fisheries have just put that plan into effect this year so I guess that makes me a pretty dumb capitalist pig.
Of course I make a living and support my family. But I am also responsible for the 350+ people I employ and provide a living for. These people have a right to harvest a resource that belongs to them, literally. It is my responsibility to teach them the right way to keep it sustainable and we have many workshops in the villages and team captains to police the work. It is also my job to find a market for their products and keep their income alive and this is a valuable partnership.
There is no such thing as reef raping or taking more than you need in my book. This is why we have earned a .001% ratio on our harvest in any given reef we work, and believe me over 9000 square miles (in just one area we work) is a lot of reef.
I could go on and on but I am growing tired of beating the drum about myself just to defend what we already know is true.
The reality is that coral harvest on the scale we do it compared to the overall size of the resource available is almost zero impact. When you consider how fast the coral grows and settles and add in our farm figures (over 90,000 pieces in the water today) of over 1,000 â€"œ 1,500 pieces per week it really seems silly to argue this point.
I just wish that those with the beautiful reef tank in their homes would stop criticizing those who provide the animals that we all enjoy, nourish and learn from. There is no such thing as “no take “in this world but, if you are going to take it is our responsibility to do it correctly in a sustainable way and always give something back.
Steve Robinson has the right idea he has been preaching for years. Catch fish with nets not poison …… not don’t catch fish just do it right to protect the environment. I have recently been accused of using crowbars. We have never used crowbars and when we found out some of the divers were they were either dismissed or taught the right way and it was enforced by us. This is the reason you will hardly ever see a flame hawk from my company and when we do have them it is only the few they were able to catch without poison or bars to smash the coral they live in.
I am sorry for this long post and I doubt it will really change any minds that insist what I do is wrong so I will sign off with a few words I heard Martin Moe once say; “when reality and perception collide perception usually wins”.
Letmegrow, lets talk sometime at one of the conferences if you attend them. Please visit my old, old web sites and see for yourself what we do. www.waltsmith.com was made just before we started harvesting from our farms (and is in need of update) but you will see some of the older reports and papers on this site. www.pacificaquafarms.com will have a lot more information on the farming we do but catch it soon because the new oweners are about to change the site.
Peace to all,
Walt
 
Wow, I am even more confused now, I really do not have a side, I just wish we all knew the truth.

This confused me
"The free reign you speak of only lasted a couple of years while we were able to train all of our divers in absolute clean collecting practices. Now we have 5 companies and I have still offered to teach them all how to grow coral and make rock but no one has taken me up on the offer."

You are not allowed to train the people who work for your five companies, or these are other companies?

"We have never used crowbars and when we found out some of the divers were they were either dismissed or taught the right way and it was enforced by us."

This seems to contradict itself, either your companies employees did or didn't, I think we all understand that you do not condone or approve of the practice.

I wish I have seen what you have seen. I took a quick tour of your site and was wishing there had been more about your aquaculture/mariculture work.

All I saw was this,
Coming Soon:
A report and pictures
on our Aquaculture
and Farming projects

In terms of answering one of pewee's questions.
"How many Tons of rock would you say was exported by your company alone ?"

I found this on th waltsmith site."We are able to hold up to 19 tons at one time all under the constant spray that you see here with the rock placed above the bottom of the tank on racks. This allows us to hold several weeks worth of export while it is "curing" under the spray"

So does 19 tons last a couple of weeks?

I just wish we all knew the truth and all companies could tell us what actually happened and is happening.

I'll continue buying frags locally and dabbling in frag grow out myself.
 
Hi Levon 15
Sorry that I wasn’t clear, hope this helps.
You are not allowed to train the people who work for your five companies, or these are other companies?
The five companies I speak of are myself and four competitors in Tonga. I can see how this statement was confusing.

"We have never used crowbars and when we found out some of the divers were they were either dismissed or taught the right way and it was enforced by us."

This seems to contradict itself, either your companies employees did or didn't, I think we all understand that you do not condone or approve of the practice.
We did have one or two instances way back in the beginning after one new competitor came to town and taught their divers this method and the word spread to our divers and we caught them. I think most of the companies now are using the Steve Robinson approach because most hire at least two Philippine divers that were taught the net collection skill before coming to Tonga.

I wish I have seen what you have seen. I took a quick tour of your site and was wishing there had been more about your aquaculture/mariculture work.
I am sorry about that. I had said in another post to go to www.pacificaquafarms.com site to see our aquaculture efforts. The Walt Smith site is very old and is in the process of being updated as I write.

In terms of answering one of pewee's questions.
"How many Tons of rock would you say was exported by your company alone ?"
We export about 12 -13 tons per week sometimes less. Yes the system was designed to actually hold live rock as opposed to just packing it up on the beach like some of the other companies were doing back in the beginning.


I'll continue buying frags locally and dabbling in frag grow out myself.
Please do and don’t give up your efforts to share what you have learned.
Best to all,
Walt
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13058544#post13058544 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Walt Smith
This particular study we are talking about here is commissioned by us because the new government has no money to spend on it. I think it is important for our industry and resource to have a non-detriment finding and a collection area management plan (CAMP).
The CAMP is reviewed every few years by scientist that study reef ecology. This report has been done (and a new one on the way) by Ed Lovell from Bio Research in Fiji and a professor at the University of the South Pacific commissioned by us but not required.

Can you send me a copy of your current CAMP? I PM'd my email address to you.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13058544#post13058544 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Walt Smith
The non-detriment finding will be a very detailed and lengthily report spanning many months and covering every specie we export. This work will be carried out by a team of environmentalist from the scientific council in Fiji and headed by one of the professors in marine studies at the University of the South Pacific (not Lovell).

This statement is more than little disturbing to me. You're automatically assuming that your practices are non-detrimental before research has even started, very bad science. I hope your researcher isn't doing the same thing or you just wasted 20k. Please provide some preliminary documentation on this study if you can. Do you have a copy of the research proposal you can share?

BTW, I am not a WSI hater. As you mentioned most of us are making negative comments without knowing the full issues. However, without access to unbiased information, how are we supposed to make informed opinions?

Thanks again,
 
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I would like to thank Walt for posting what he has. Our group is pretty active and interested in matters higher than just our tanks.

Its not a matter of hating on Walt Smith, his companies, or what he does. We are trying to gather information to form opinions. Its tough to get that info from an unbiased source as reeferhead has stated.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13062412#post13062412 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by levon15
I would like to thank Walt for posting what he has. Our group is pretty active and interested in matters higher than just our tanks.

Its not a matter of hating on Walt Smith, his companies, or what he does. We are trying to gather information to form opinions. Its tough to get that info from an unbiased source as reeferhead has stated.

X2
 
In cases of stories like this, it is always better to error on the side of caution, rather than lending credence to one person's remarks more than another.

I agree it is so hard to feel informed like you have the full story. Always have to keep in mind there is always more than one angle or side in a situation like the Tonga ban. And no doubt each side feels as they were in the "right" and the others involved were in the "wrong."

It will be better for all involved if this situation gets resolved.
 
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