intrested to know why.....
- Thread starter VCoo71
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captbunzo
Premium Member
Amazing that I missed this thread all day yesterday. In a way, I am glad this has been discussed here to clear the air a little better about CCA. And yes, the decision was made on the website to give preferential treatment to those stores that are supporting our club.
That said, I very much enjoy visiting CCA when I make it up to Norman. They have a BEAUTIFUL seahorse / pipefish / etc planted aquarium right now - something like 180G. And they do have excellent prices.
My suggestion / request to all. Make sure that we all represent COMAS well when we venture into CCA and other stores. Perhaps if we continue to build bridges with them, they will come around after a while.... Maybe not to make a discount. But, perhaps, some donations for giveaways, etc.
That said, I very much enjoy visiting CCA when I make it up to Norman. They have a BEAUTIFUL seahorse / pipefish / etc planted aquarium right now - something like 180G. And they do have excellent prices.
My suggestion / request to all. Make sure that we all represent COMAS well when we venture into CCA and other stores. Perhaps if we continue to build bridges with them, they will come around after a while.... Maybe not to make a discount. But, perhaps, some donations for giveaways, etc.
Russ Braaten
New member
Paul and Charlie,
I was told by CCA that the club POresident was extreemly rude to them in tha past. I asked if it was a big goofy looking guy with an English accent and they said no.
OK I left out the "goofy looking" part. hehehe
I had the feeling they were tired of being trashed and tired of being asked to give discounts or freebies. They certainly have some of the best prices in the Norman, OKC, Edmond area we mostly come from. Plus they will give discounts to regular customers.
About the COMAS fliers. I have been to every shop a number of times and have never seen a COMAS flier. I tell people about COMAS when I see them in shops but am careful to not insult the shops, which others have done in the past.
Paul, I just went to the LFS area of our website and just noticed how you can change the list. Would it be possible to make that part clearer? There is a lot of great info there that I never saw.
I was told by CCA that the club POresident was extreemly rude to them in tha past. I asked if it was a big goofy looking guy with an English accent and they said no.
OK I left out the "goofy looking" part. heheheI had the feeling they were tired of being trashed and tired of being asked to give discounts or freebies. They certainly have some of the best prices in the Norman, OKC, Edmond area we mostly come from. Plus they will give discounts to regular customers.
About the COMAS fliers. I have been to every shop a number of times and have never seen a COMAS flier. I tell people about COMAS when I see them in shops but am careful to not insult the shops, which others have done in the past.
Paul, I just went to the LFS area of our website and just noticed how you can change the list. Would it be possible to make that part clearer? There is a lot of great info there that I never saw.
saltysooner
Premium Member
David and Janielle Laselle own it.
hiflykitty
New member
I have been having a difficult time getting LFSs to sponsor photo of the month, and it think the things mentioned in this thread are part of the reason why. I had to beg steve at wet pets to sponsor January, and got him to give some coupons. I went through all that effort and all of about 2 people came in to redeem the coupons, and one of the coupons was for free turbos (the nice big ones) just for walking in the door! I think that only a small portion of the lfs's business comes from the club, and it doesn't really benefit them financially to support the club.
dugg
New member
Just a suggestion here. I see all the talk about getting the LFS'S to sponsor the club, but nothing about the club sponsoring things to help the LFS'S. I would think that in order to get more LFS involvment in the club, there are a few things that the club could do.
First, it is a profitable thing for the LFS'S if the club could hold a meeting occassionally at various stores on a mid day saturday schedual. That would give the club a place to meet, and the LFS would stand to make a few sales during and after the meetings. This would also benefit the club, by customers that come in during meetings possibly joining COMAS.
Second, maybe the club could offer all of the LFS's a coupon for a free one year membership to a customer that buys a complete system of say a minimum $1000 purchase. This gives the LFS a sales pitch, and increases membership for COMAS. It is a free one this year, but more than likely a paid membership every year after.
I'm sure you could come up with other ways to help out the LFS'S in the area, and it would make it much easier for them to justify giving the club members discounts and donations. The fish bussiness is a very tight commpetitive bussiness, and there isn't a lot of spare cash floating around for give aways and discounts when there is nothing there for them in return except there name listed on a club website.
Just my 2 cents, but it seems like a worthy project for the club to work on.
First, it is a profitable thing for the LFS'S if the club could hold a meeting occassionally at various stores on a mid day saturday schedual. That would give the club a place to meet, and the LFS would stand to make a few sales during and after the meetings. This would also benefit the club, by customers that come in during meetings possibly joining COMAS.
Second, maybe the club could offer all of the LFS's a coupon for a free one year membership to a customer that buys a complete system of say a minimum $1000 purchase. This gives the LFS a sales pitch, and increases membership for COMAS. It is a free one this year, but more than likely a paid membership every year after.
I'm sure you could come up with other ways to help out the LFS'S in the area, and it would make it much easier for them to justify giving the club members discounts and donations. The fish bussiness is a very tight commpetitive bussiness, and there isn't a lot of spare cash floating around for give aways and discounts when there is nothing there for them in return except there name listed on a club website.
Just my 2 cents, but it seems like a worthy project for the club to work on.
Dugg, we do have meetings in Stores. I have spoken with Reefshop, Gary at ART and Steve at WetPets about hosting a meeting. So far we have met at Slones Store, Exotic Aquatics.
I like the idea regarding the voucher with the purchase of a complete system, maybe that is something we could discuss at the next meeting.
With the exception of CCA and Josettes (and fish is just a small part of the sales at Josettes) most of the stores seem happy to support us. I understand how Steve at WetPets may get frustrated giving out vouchers and not having people redeem them....Im sure I would be.
I agree it has to be a two way road. I think the advertising the stores will get through our website is a start, especially as the site grows and banners etc are added.
P.
I like the idea regarding the voucher with the purchase of a complete system, maybe that is something we could discuss at the next meeting.
With the exception of CCA and Josettes (and fish is just a small part of the sales at Josettes) most of the stores seem happy to support us. I understand how Steve at WetPets may get frustrated giving out vouchers and not having people redeem them....Im sure I would be.
I agree it has to be a two way road. I think the advertising the stores will get through our website is a start, especially as the site grows and banners etc are added.
P.
Russ Braaten
New member
The LFS know that we trade frags and that hobby groups create a more plugged in client that is more apt to buy online or from each other than from them.
Some 25 years ago I managed a pes shop in Tulsa and I remember the owners would not allow me to carry animal magazines like Bird Talk because the back of the magazine had places where people could buy things directly from breeders or manufacturers.
If I had a pet shop now I would offer my shop as the place to hold the monthly meetings. Good relationships like that would help my business and not hurt it.
Some 25 years ago I managed a pes shop in Tulsa and I remember the owners would not allow me to carry animal magazines like Bird Talk because the back of the magazine had places where people could buy things directly from breeders or manufacturers.
If I had a pet shop now I would offer my shop as the place to hold the monthly meetings. Good relationships like that would help my business and not hurt it.
dugg
New member
Could you place a sticky at the top of the forum with all of the lfs's contact info? That would give them real good exporsure. I see a lot of times in other forums, where people planning to visit an area look on thier local forums, asking where the stores are. Maybe a sticky each month spotlighting individual stores, showing what they have to offer, and giving everyone a chance to see what is out there without having to drive 50 miles to see.
Dugg & Hifly - very good observations. Travis started a thread on the OMAS board that touches on this subject [unfortunately no other retailers have spoken]. I think the clubs and the retailers need each other, but to what extent???????? The only way to answer that question is open dialog between both parties. I'm sure [as usual] I ticked some people off with my responses on the OMAS board but I think an honest answer was needed.
Korndog
New member
I think this topic would be great to discuss at a meeting. Each side has their own requirements that need to be fulfilled before they feel justified in sponsoring the other party.
Since I have seen both sides of this argument first hand, this is what I know;
i) There MUST be a 'two way road' mentality when it comes to the club and the LFS. IF a LFS refuses to hand out fliers, give a COMAS discount, or even acknowledge the club, COMAS has no obligation to help the store out. By posting a LFS on the website that does NOT support the club, COMAS is generating potential revenue for that store, free advertising if you will. What does COMAS get in return? Nothing ... they may even get some negative publicity. So, How is that fair? How can there be a legit complaint about a LFS that wants NOTHING to do with the club, being listed on COMAS website?
That being said, the sole purpose of the "LFS" page is to give listings of ALL the LFS in the area. The decision to give preference to the supporting clubs was given so that they might see some sort of return for their support. ALL the stores are listed; it just takes some work to get to non-supporting businesses.
ii) I can also see how a LFS might not want to fiscally support COMAS. Just like Sarah mentioned, COMAS members have a very inelastic consumption line, if you will (pardon the economics talk). A great example of this comes from EA. They have an email list set up with approximately 70% COMAS members in it. There have been 2 occasions where coupons were sent out (something like 20-30% off SPS coral/fish/etc) and roughly 10-15% of those who responded were COMAS members. EA has given out vouchers for $25 before. It is the LFS hope that whoever gets these vouchers, will spend at least a little more than the vouchers face value, that way some of the funds can be recuperated. I have seen people who win these vouchers come in, spend $24.95, and leave.
I know I can only speak based on the stats from EA, some stores do receive more attention from COMAS members than others. That being said, those stores who see LOSSES from sponsoring the club have a hard time justifying donating things for raffles and giveaways.
It is, in fact, a two way street. Each organization is looking out for their own interests. The LFS market in the OKC area is very tight right now. If a LFS is willing to give away $3 snails just for walking in the door, and no one shows up.... where is the motivation?
Since I have seen both sides of this argument first hand, this is what I know;
i) There MUST be a 'two way road' mentality when it comes to the club and the LFS. IF a LFS refuses to hand out fliers, give a COMAS discount, or even acknowledge the club, COMAS has no obligation to help the store out. By posting a LFS on the website that does NOT support the club, COMAS is generating potential revenue for that store, free advertising if you will. What does COMAS get in return? Nothing ... they may even get some negative publicity. So, How is that fair? How can there be a legit complaint about a LFS that wants NOTHING to do with the club, being listed on COMAS website?
That being said, the sole purpose of the "LFS" page is to give listings of ALL the LFS in the area. The decision to give preference to the supporting clubs was given so that they might see some sort of return for their support. ALL the stores are listed; it just takes some work to get to non-supporting businesses.
ii) I can also see how a LFS might not want to fiscally support COMAS. Just like Sarah mentioned, COMAS members have a very inelastic consumption line, if you will (pardon the economics talk). A great example of this comes from EA. They have an email list set up with approximately 70% COMAS members in it. There have been 2 occasions where coupons were sent out (something like 20-30% off SPS coral/fish/etc) and roughly 10-15% of those who responded were COMAS members. EA has given out vouchers for $25 before. It is the LFS hope that whoever gets these vouchers, will spend at least a little more than the vouchers face value, that way some of the funds can be recuperated. I have seen people who win these vouchers come in, spend $24.95, and leave.
I know I can only speak based on the stats from EA, some stores do receive more attention from COMAS members than others. That being said, those stores who see LOSSES from sponsoring the club have a hard time justifying donating things for raffles and giveaways.
It is, in fact, a two way street. Each organization is looking out for their own interests. The LFS market in the OKC area is very tight right now. If a LFS is willing to give away $3 snails just for walking in the door, and no one shows up.... where is the motivation?
dugg
New member
Maybe Gary or one of the LFS owners could jump in here and give some input on what things would be helpfull in boosting the LFS+club relationship. I realize that in some ways clubs hurt the stores, by having frag programs, and doing group internet orders and such. On the other hand, those frags have to start someplace, ( from the LFS inventory). The club also helps to create interest with paople that never before had a tank, or that had freshwater, then due to finding the clubs, start up a reef.
I realize that in order for the LFS to want to be involved and sponsor the clubs, they need to see a boost in thier bank account. That is why i suggested the sticky threads for a store listing. Which i think should be at the top of every club forum. This has just as much benefit for the reefers as for the LFS. I know when i travel, i like to find the local reef stores and have a look around. I'm not real sure how RC will look at this, either as participation, or unpaid advertisment? In my oppinion, while there may not be money changing hands for the post, it is a good gesture to support the LFS's that without them, we wouldn't have a hobby. I also think the monthly store spotlight sticky could really help both sides out a lot. It gives individual stores a chance to show people what they have to offer, and gives people that may live a little too far from a particular store a chance to see if it is worth the drive for them to check out. The spotlight sticky could be a place for club sponsorship to work both ways. The store could give a small giveaway for the club to use at meetings in exchange for the chance to show what they have to offer. I used to manage, and even owned a few stores (not fish stores) and i know how much advertising can cost. A month long spotlight sticky on this forum, would be worth FAR more than what they would need to donate. I have run a full page add in the daily oklahoman for 3 days before that cost me several thousand dollars. I would have been jumping at a chance to spotlight my store for an entire month on a forum filled with people interested in exactly what i had to sell for a coupon, or a 20 or 30 dollar giveaway. That is as cheap as advertising gets. When i had my record store, i was paying the KATT radio station $200 + for a 30 second spot on the radio. 30 seconds then it's over and never heard again unless you have another $200 + to spend.
Also having done the sales thing quite a bit, the free 1 year membership voucher to what is fast becoming the largest and most active reef club in North America is an excellent sales tool, and is a win win situation for both sides. Even people that don't end up buying a system, may learn about the club just from the voucher being offered and eventually join up, which helps both sides. New reefers means new dollars in the hobby. The stores could post a sign on selected systems that are in the top 5% in price, stating that this system comes with a 1 year free membership to the COMAS reef club, explaining the frag program and support benefits involved.
Gary??? exoticaquatics??? Don't be shy.
I realize that in order for the LFS to want to be involved and sponsor the clubs, they need to see a boost in thier bank account. That is why i suggested the sticky threads for a store listing. Which i think should be at the top of every club forum. This has just as much benefit for the reefers as for the LFS. I know when i travel, i like to find the local reef stores and have a look around. I'm not real sure how RC will look at this, either as participation, or unpaid advertisment? In my oppinion, while there may not be money changing hands for the post, it is a good gesture to support the LFS's that without them, we wouldn't have a hobby. I also think the monthly store spotlight sticky could really help both sides out a lot. It gives individual stores a chance to show people what they have to offer, and gives people that may live a little too far from a particular store a chance to see if it is worth the drive for them to check out. The spotlight sticky could be a place for club sponsorship to work both ways. The store could give a small giveaway for the club to use at meetings in exchange for the chance to show what they have to offer. I used to manage, and even owned a few stores (not fish stores) and i know how much advertising can cost. A month long spotlight sticky on this forum, would be worth FAR more than what they would need to donate. I have run a full page add in the daily oklahoman for 3 days before that cost me several thousand dollars. I would have been jumping at a chance to spotlight my store for an entire month on a forum filled with people interested in exactly what i had to sell for a coupon, or a 20 or 30 dollar giveaway. That is as cheap as advertising gets. When i had my record store, i was paying the KATT radio station $200 + for a 30 second spot on the radio. 30 seconds then it's over and never heard again unless you have another $200 + to spend.
Also having done the sales thing quite a bit, the free 1 year membership voucher to what is fast becoming the largest and most active reef club in North America is an excellent sales tool, and is a win win situation for both sides. Even people that don't end up buying a system, may learn about the club just from the voucher being offered and eventually join up, which helps both sides. New reefers means new dollars in the hobby. The stores could post a sign on selected systems that are in the top 5% in price, stating that this system comes with a 1 year free membership to the COMAS reef club, explaining the frag program and support benefits involved.
Gary??? exoticaquatics??? Don't be shy.
Korndog
New member
Reef Centrals advertisement policy is pretty strict. If a LFS owner mentions their store on here, the thread gets deleted. I would go out on a limb to say that posting the stores as a sticky would probably violate their policy. They are after the $$$, too. (it is a great idea, though!)
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