Inventronics LED Drivers -- Yes or No?

[beolson25]

A cheap 4 channel "commercial" PWM controller is from $50-$65 dollars.. coupled w/ 4 LDD's ($7 each)
You total expense for 4channel "command and control is $78 to start..
Of course you need to add a PS.
compare that to 4 "stand alone" analog drivers..Except for the very cheap flee bay open frame types I bet your costs will be fairly equiv.. w/in 25%..

I spent $132 on the two drivers and lets call it $5 for the pots. So ... $137 with a total capacity of 114 V + 72 V = 186 Volts. So that is comparable to 4 LDD-1000HW or LDD-1000H(@ 7.25 each = 29). I would argue if you are going to use this that you should probably buy the 4 driver board(optional $15). The PS on Rapid LED is $50 and would work fine. Plus you said the controller costs $50-65 ... lets call it $55.

So ... mine is $137
and... your is $134 - $149(with optional board)

So ... Yeah very comparable. The nice thing about my scenario for the LDD drivers is that the power supply still has an extra ~150 watts of available power. The downside, in my opinion, is that there is more wiring to do and for my exact situation (20 White, 30 Blue) LEDs I would either have to combine the blue and white strings somehow or I would need more than 4 LDD drivers since the 1 LDD would only handle 13 of the whites and the other 3 would handle the 30 blues. So I would have to add another one and then to make it neat I'd have to buy another mounting board. 2LDDs for White + 3LDDs for blue = 5 total LDDs. Not a huge deal.


Again ... I think they are very close ...

 

[mcgyvr]

So ... I did an initial look over the concerns and ... well ... I don't see 114V being too far off being electrocuted by a 48 V DC at the same current.................

While yes it is the current that kills BUT
in this situation the danger is the increased voltage level being able to overcome the resistance of human skin and allow the shock to transfer around the human body..

I work in an industry where physical contact with 48V bus bars carrying high current (thousands of amps) happens all the time with no real danger.
Making contact with your hand is drastically different from making that same contact with a metallic object.
I've seen wrenches,etc.. completely vaporized.. yet have no problem grabbing energized bus bars with my hand.

Above SELV voltages shock danger increases drastically.
Moisture also reduces the resistance.. (think 9V battery and touching your tongue to it vs putting a dry finger across the contacts)

 

[beolson25]

While yes it is the current that kills BUT
in this situation the danger is the increased voltage level being able to overcome the resistance of human skin and allow the shock to transfer around the human body..

I work in an industry where physical contact with 48V bus bars carrying high current (thousands of amps) happens all the time with no real danger.
Making contact with your hand is drastically different from making that same contact with a metallic object.
I've seen wrenches,etc.. completely vaporized.. yet have no problem grabbing energized bus bars with my hand.

Above SELV voltages shock danger increases drastically.
Moisture also reduces the resistance.. (think 9V battery and touching your tongue to it vs putting a dry finger across the contacts)

I really want there to be a like button so I don't have to submit an actual reply ... So ...

"LIKE"

 

[perkint]

While yes it is the current that kills BUT
in this situation the danger is the increased voltage level being able to overcome the resistance of human skin and allow the shock to transfer around the human body..

I work in an industry where physical contact with 48V bus bars carrying high current (thousands of amps) happens all the time with no real danger.
Making contact with your hand is drastically different from making that same contact with a metallic object.
I've seen wrenches,etc.. completely vaporized.. yet have no problem grabbing energized bus bars with my hand.

Above SELV voltages shock danger increases drastically.
Moisture also reduces the resistance.. (think 9V battery and touching your tongue to it vs putting a dry finger across the contacts)

And, in the sort of enviroment people are usually playing in here, you can increase that further as it isn't just likely to be a wet part of the body, it's likely to be wet with very conductive water (you know, the stuff your tank is full of)!!!

Tim

 

[zachts]

48v DC is safe to work with. Some drivers that are used to run strings usually larger than 14 3 watt LEDs in series are getting into a dangerous high DC voltage area. But in hindsight I think I actually was thinking of the Maxwellen drivers not the inventronics. So my apologies.

But to your point I completely agree why not Mean well due to price and known quality.

Meanwell makes plenty of those. I use a 100v version in my shop light builds. Properly and safely implemented they are fine. for use over a tank in a DIY, HELL NO! Higher output than ~54v (eln) is intended for commercial use only.

 

[zachts]

That being said the one thing people didn't address when using the Meanwell drivers is that you have to have a separate 10V source for dimming. I understand that is not a huge deal but as we all know in the aquarium world those extra outlet spaces are at a premium without a large number of splitters.
.

LPF and others don't need reference voltage for manual dimming and are apex etc compatible..

 

[zachts]

Why do people still want analog drivers is my question. :hmm5:

Simplicity! that is if you don't want or need a controller or already have an APEX, etc........otherwise.......LDD!

 

[zachts]

While yes it is the current that kills BUT
in this situation the danger is the increased voltage level being able to overcome the resistance of human skin and allow the shock to transfer around the human body..

I work in an industry where physical contact with 48V bus bars carrying high current (thousands of amps) happens all the time with no real danger.
Making contact with your hand is drastically different from making that same contact with a metallic object.
I've seen wrenches,etc.. completely vaporized.. yet have no problem grabbing energized bus bars with my hand.

Above SELV voltages shock danger increases drastically.
Moisture also reduces the resistance.. (think 9V battery and touching your tongue to it vs putting a dry finger across the contacts)

eventually someone will chime in with the equasions but I don't recall them. the danger of over ~50v DC is that the skin has a very high resitance (as does human tissue in general) higher voltages make it much easier for that leathal dose of current (only a few mA) to reach your heart and kill you!

Momentary contact with high voltage DC (at least if you are wet and somewhat grounded, or if you are grounded from one hand to the other) WILL KILL YOU. in an aquarium setting it is very dangerous. (those popular CREE led bulbs operate at 120 volt DC and is why they coated in plastic so that even if the glass breaks the bulb dosn't shatter allowing you to thouch a high voltage contact when powered....)

 

[mussel and hate]

I own four inventronics drivers. One EUC-025S070DS, two EUC-040S045DS and one EUC-075S070DT. All of them running for about two years of continuous daily 12 hour cycles. No problems, excellent reliability(so far) and superb efficiency(especially the 75w).

If you really want to use a PWM controller inventronics does make a PWM to 0-10V converter. I can't be bothered personally. A pot and adjustable height seems to do the trick. I never needed to dim my MH or fluorescents. Maybe this programmable dimming is some sort of millennial fad that old school reefers like me just don't understand. Regardless they are excellent drivers and control options are plentiful.

Regarding safety I'm pretty sure you can electrocute yourself with a PAR38, MH, T5 or any other 120v light. That risk never seemed to stop anyone. I understand most of the people on this board employ submerged 120v conductors on a variety of aquarium components(I don't) so what's the big deal?

 

[ghellin]

I always love the "it hasn't happened to me" response....

 

[perkint]

Regarding safety I'm pretty sure you can electrocute yourself with a PAR38, MH, T5 or any other 120v light. That risk never seemed to stop anyone

But not so many people DIY all of the wiring for those

Tim

 

[mcgyvr]

Regarding safety I'm pretty sure you can electrocute yourself with a PAR38, MH, T5 or any other 120v light. That risk never seemed to stop anyone. I understand most of the people on this board employ submerged 120v conductors on a variety of aquarium components(I don't) so what's the big deal?

The devices we buy (heaters/pumps,etc...) already have the protection required for safety (double insulation,etc...) and people aren't opening them up and being exposed to the dangers. And we still recommend GFCI devices for that chance that the protection fails on them..
When building/wiring your own light with high voltage supplies you may be exposed to those voltages.. People just need to be aware..

Thankfully many newbies seem to have lots of luck on their side.. I can't tell you all the STUPID things I've seen "beginners" doing over the years that could have easily killed them..

 

[ghellin]

The devices we buy (heaters/pumps,etc...) already have the protection required for safety (double insulation,etc...) and people aren't opening them up and being exposed to the dangers. And we still recommend GFCI devices for that chance that the protection fails on them..
When building/wiring your own light with high voltage supplies you may be exposed to those voltages.. People just need to be aware..

Thankfully many newbies seem to have lots of luck on their side.. I can't tell you all the STUPID things I've seen "beginners" doing over the years that could have easily killed them..

Well said. "Like"

 

[beolson25]

Well ... looks like I may be using a product which is not the safest possible option. I was going to use terminal strips to connect the wires between drivers and LEDs but now I think that would be too open so I'll solder them and use shrink tubing to make sure they are well sealed.

I'll get it done and possibly post some pictures ... I don't plan on it being too pretty so we'll see. But ... you will know if you don't hear from me in several months that is was a bad idea.

I'm glad this thread was created though because it certainly made me stop and think ... unfortunately I am on a budget and already paid for the drivers. I really think I'll be fine since I will be extra careful.

 

[beolson25]

Oh ... and here is my own little silly comment ...

This is my first post to reach 2 pages ... YAY!


I know ... not that exciting but I'm glad I could ask a question that triggered some debate and intelligent discussion.

 

[mussel and hate]

People DIY all sorts of things electrical and otherwise. Back in the '80s DIY wired fluorescent aquarium lights were common, later DIY MH became so. Aquarists currently DIY all manner of electrical equipment and connections both high and low voltage ac and dc. This is nothing different or new. Caution is always prudent when engaging in pursuits that could end one's life. GFCI use is mandatory with the aquarium as it is in the bathroom regardless of what sort of lighting is chosen or who assembled said lighting.

I've experienced failure of submerged 120V power cords. I don't submerge power cords any more. I do DIY aquarium gear with 120v. I'm much more confident in my abilities than those of some anonymous factory worker in some foreign nation, and so far my track record supports my confidence.

DIY isn't for everyone. If you're not certain you can do a thing safely and properly perhaps it's best to leave that thing to "the pros". If on the other hand you are competent then don't fret the voltage of an Inventronics constant current driver.

 

[mussel and hate]

Oh ya regarding built in safeties, I recall the melting Marineland aquarium heater than nearly caused a fire in my house. So much for the protection of commercial goods.

To add insult to injury Marineland was willing to replace the faulty heater if I mailed it in with proof of purchase. Never mind the dead marine life in my tank or the fact that postage exceeded the value of the heater. Good times.

 

[mcgyvr]

Oh ya regarding built in safeties, I recall the melting Marineland aquarium heater than nearly caused a fire in my house. So much for the protection of commercial goods.

To add insult to injury Marineland was willing to replace the faulty heater if I mailed it in with proof of purchase. Never mind the dead marine life in my tank or the fact that postage exceeded the value of the heater. Good times.

even "professional" products fail sometimes... it just happens..
mostly because a human is putting them together..

 

[sleepydoc]

Oh ya regarding built in safeties, I recall the melting Marineland aquarium heater than nearly caused a fire in my house. So much for the protection of commercial goods.

To add insult to injury Marineland was willing to replace the faulty heater if I mailed it in with proof of purchase. Never mind the dead marine life in my tank or the fact that postage exceeded the value of the heater. Good times.

Yeah - that's pretty much standard for warranties. They will pay for the device itself, nothing more - no postage, no 'loaner heater' to keep your tank warm while you get the new one, no coverage for the $500 in livestock that died. Warranties are good, but reliability is better.

even "professional" products fail sometimes... it just happens..
mostly because a human is putting them together..

The one thing that a commercial product theoretically buys you is quality control and a design done by someone with more experience and education. Having something that works is one thing, having a robust design that won't flake out is another. Not that all DIY designs are poor or all commercial products are well designed & built...