is my tanks bioload really overdone?

[kau_cinta_ku]

here is some spec.s of the tank and what I have for bioload.

75 gal. main tank
30 gal. sump/fuge has cheato but not really growing
100lbs of LR
1.5" sand bed
mag9.5 return pump.
1 - seio 1100
1 - maxijet mod med flow
2 - phosphate reactors 1 for carbon (changed every 2 weeks) 1 for phosphate remover (changed once a month)
1 - filter sock changed every 2 days
ASM G2 skimmer (cup and neck changed every 2 weeks)
15 gal. water change every sunday
purelyh2o optima pro rodi filter 0 TDS
for feedings i feed 1 - 1"x2" sheet of nori and half cube of mysis shrimp per day, switching the mysis to a mix of table shrimp and squid everyother day.

fish
2 - percs male 2" female 3.5"
1 - 4" yellow tang
1 - 1.5" hippo tang
1 - 1.5" pajama cardinal
1 - 2.5'' lawnmower blenny

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I'd say yes, but only because of the two tangs. If you remove one of your tangs you could get a few smaller fish.
-jmo

 

[kau_cinta_ku]

i understand the tangs part but being that they are small now does just the fact that they are "tangs" really make them overdo it? and am uprading to a 180 next year.

not doubting anyone just wanted opinions

 

[glaspie69]

I've always thought that a bio-load was determined by alot of things. The sand, live rock, fish, corals etc. Now I always looked at overloading the same way. I've got 4 tangs in a 120 and several other smaller fish, around 60 other corals, 300 or so lbs of rock and a small layer of sand for look. I wouldn't consider my tank overloaded, my skimmer is larger than it needs to be and is cleaned two to three times a week to help keep it at somewhat peak performance. Weekly water changes, smaller feedings, and good general maintence keep all levels in check. I personally now when you get into larger fish like triggers and large schools of chromis or anthias (which i never have) things might change abit. I would say as long as you stay on top of your water quality and your tests you should be just fine. J

 

[Double-J]

I'd say your bioload is fine. Infact I think you have room for more! 5.5" of tangs in a 75gallon is doable. Why not add some anthias or chromis to the mix

 

[kau_cinta_ku]

well this all started because I have been battling nitrates ever sence I bought this rock from a reefer in Omaha that was moving. ever sence i put this rock in my tank the nitrates have stayed around 40ppm. some ppl say my tank is overstocked and others say it is fine.

so i asked about rocks leaching nitrates and was told it can't do that. well their explination was good enough to beleive but the reason i asked was because i can take out a rock from the main tank, put it in a 10 gal. tank with NSW and do 100% water changes every week for 3 monthes and I still test 40ppm nitrates in a tank with just a rock lol.

BTW here are my latest tests
pH - 8.0-8.3 milwalkee pH monitor
temp 79-80 ranco dual temp controller
ammonia - 0 API test kit
nitrites - 0 API test kit
nitrates - 40ppm salifert, API, IO test kits
cal. - 420ppm salifert, API test kits
alk. - 10dkh salifert, API test kits
mag. - 1350 salifert test kit
phosphates - 0 salifert test kit
sg. - 35ppm refractometer

that is all i have i think. i dose randy's 2 part everyday

anyone else have ways to help bring it down?

 

[glaspie69]

just out of curiousity have you tried more than your test kit for nitrates? I've heard of test kits going bad or getting to old. I don't know who told you rock couldnt leach nitrates, I just can't see where that would be truthful (unless i've missed something) I would think that waste and such could gather in the rocks crevices and leach out over time, I've got several spots in my tank to grow hair algae.....only in those spots and i've noticed there's alot of wast inside to rock at those points. I would say the rock might be a possiblity. It could also be in the sand, if the sand is hard packed and doesn't have much flow getting through it it could be causing some issues. Always hard to tell......thats what makes this hobby so fun.

 

[waverz]

If the rock is leeching nitrates all you can really do is cook it or ride it out until it stops leeching.

 

[kau_cinta_ku]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10590245#post10590245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by glaspie69
Always hard to tell......thats what makes this hobby so fun.

yeah that is what I love about it. but soon i hope to just be able to watch the tank rather then messing with it once a day lol.

herehere is the thread that i was told that rock couldn't leach nitrates.

i have used 3 diff. test kits to test nitrates, salifert, API, and IO test kits all come out about the same.

the sand is only 6 monthes old, plain dry southdown so not even hard yet

 

[jtesdall]

Hello again. I have similar problems and this is why we have been discussing the coil de-nitrator. Jason's method should definitely work, weekly water changes. But that is expensive and time consuming, there should be a way to do small weekly or monthly larger changes depending on preference.

Ok folks answer this, Sam has 40 ppm nitrates and 0 ammonia and nitrite, so he has plenty of aerobic bacteria. What he (and I) are missing are enough anaerobic bacteria to convert Nitrate into Nitrogen gas. There seems to be three ways to get rid of Nitrates:

1. Water changes
2. Refugium with macro algae
3. DSB - Deep Sand bed
4. De-nitrator of some sort

Are there others?? The last two require creating an oxygen free zone for the anaerobic bacteria to grow.

So Sam I might say you need a deeper sand bed. But I know others here will chastise me and say no way. Bare bottom seems to be the way of this club. But if you go bare bottom, where the heck does the anaerobic bacteria grow. Bare bottom tanks are obviously VERY successful, I've seen JJ's. But I don't know where he puts all the nitrates, his tank is full of big fish. But I think he has a big DE-NITRATOR!

 

[ZLTFUL]

Why not add a remote DSB? I have seen a couple of them on here as options for those with bare bottoms that work surprisingly well.
May a 20 gallon tank with about a 5 inch sand bed plumbed into the sytem somewhere?

Just a thought...

 

[jtesdall]

I don't know Ryan, why go bare bottom if you have a DSB elsewhere. The issue as I understand is the scare of hydrogen sulfide buildup. I think it is generlly agreed that BB doesn't look as good as a tank with sand.

 

[Sk8r]

I'd say you're fine on bioload, and I'd wonder if there isn't a big dead burrowing clam in that rock.

If your cheato isn't growing light it with PC 20 hours a day: that should help. If you can get it going enough to really fill the fuge, you can remove your filter sock, because it will do the same, and not need cleaning. IF you c an put a dsb with the cheato, and a rubble pile, that should help things.

I'd add: 2 conches, some nassarius, and a flock of bristleworms in case there's something going on somewhere.

The only thing else I can think of is that that rock was so saturated with nitrate-laden water in the previous tank it brought it to yours, but I'm wondering how your TDS meter is reading on your ro/di. That can really creep up on you if you have a cylinder go depleted.

 

[kau_cinta_ku]

yeah this has been bugging me for a long time.

Joel: i did end up making a smaller denitrator as stated and hooked that up last night along with keeping the bigger one going. so we will see how that works.

also I don't want to have a deep sand bed due to I can't keep the little bit of sand in the tank in one spot as it is. lol

i don't have the room to add a remote DSB so that is out also.
if their is a clam in the tank it is new to me but anything is possiable in SW tanks lol.

right now I have my cheato under 2 100 watt 65K bulbs lit for 21 hours a day. and still no luck. diff cheato from 4 diff. ppl. My TDS reads 0 and I just recalibrated the TDS meter.

"The only thing else I can think of is that that rock was so saturated with nitrate-laden water in the previous tank it brought it to yours"

but I first put this rock in my 46 gal. tank and during that time i did 3 100% water changes along with the weekly 10 gal. water changes. then when moved to the 75 gal. all NSW again along with 15gal. weekly water changes so you would think all that nitrate laden water would have been depletated by now as this has been going on for almost 2 years with this rock.

I never really had a prob. with the nitrates being the way they were when my tank was mostly softies and a few LPS's as they grow like mad in my tank but have been tring to lower them so I can get my SPS's to grow rather then just live.


all great help so far thanks a bunch. any other ideas in the mean time?


BTW I have 1 conche, and a variety of snails around 80 between astria's, nass, neirt, certhes, (forgive the spellings) and 1 tiger tail cucumber for my clean up crew.

 

[jtesdall]

Sam,

It has to come down to not enough oxygen free space for anaerobic bacteria to grow doesn't it??? I mean how are enough of the nitrates going to leave the system? You and I both have cheato and do regular water changes. I also have a DSB in one tank. We still can't export enough nitrates to keep them down for SPS. I have more water volume but definately have more bioload with an agressive tank connected. I have disconnected my reef from the system for now, it is staying lower.

Does anyone have any other ideas for Nitrate export without huge weekly water changes? Does anyone have any comments about anearobic areas, am I on track with this or not?

My hopes are still on the de-nitrator.

 

[kau_cinta_ku]

i agree with the hopes with the denitrator, as i am out of options otherwise. but i beleive you are on the right track with "not enough oxygen free space for anaerobic bacteria to grow" but i just don't know how else to get it. i could add more rock but what i have should be plenty IMO.

guess we will wait for others to chime in.

BTW what are your nitrate's reading in the reef tank now that it is on it's own system?

 

[glaspie69]

if you guys both have fuges why don't you just get a few mangroves, there knon to pull large amounts of nitrates out of the water.

as for the bare bottom tanks, personally i've had one, there fun, but not that fun. there used alot around here and else where because for an sps tank there easy to keep balanced. I like my sand but still use the star board for protection against cracking the tank.

 

[jtesdall]

Jason, Where do you get mangroves? They would be cool! I saw Allen's.

Sam, I don't think LR will grow much anaerobic bacteria. There is too much oxygen in the water and flow in our tanks. Folks, am I correct about this?

I need to take new readings on my reef tank since disconnecting on Saturday. I actually disconnected my 55 reef and moved it to the basement so I can get my new 90 I bought from Jerry (ipiniowa) ready. I know the nitrates are better because of how my softies and other corals react. Also I did about a 50% water change in the move. But my toadstools seem to be great indicators of high nitrates. They don't like to open up and stay darker. Even though I moved the tank and had everything in buckets and totes for most of the day, everything is much happier today. Certain SPS also seem to shoot out more polyps when nitrates are lower.

I was supposed to get a new Nitrate test kit and salt today from DF&S but it didn't come. I will test later with an AP test kit and compare to my aggressive/Sump/refugium system.

 

[SnkyJake]

This may sound retarded, but when my nitrates start moving up, I thin out the cheto in my refugium (along with water change). My thinking is that the cheto gets "hungry" because it has more space to grow, and is trying to replace what I just took out. So it goes back into a growth mode, and invariably my nitrates start falling again... unless I'm a complete moron (wouldn't be the first time ) and my thick cheto is actually part of the nitrate problem??

 

[KnoxvilleIa]

Mangroves

Mangroves

I got my mangroves from the same place allen did on e-bay some guy from hawaii he shipped it postal in mid winter and they arrieved in great shape. 20 for around 15 or 20 plus shipping 7.00 I lost 2 to 4 later on. I put them in last winter it took a while to get them going but I still can't grow cheato. but the mangroves are doing great.
0 nitrates also since, now it did take a few months to get them growing.