Is sand a Calcium and Alk sink?

[JMBoehling]

I am running across more and more local reefers having issues with keeping there Alk and Calcium balanced once there reefs hit the 1 to1/2 year time frame. They start adding Calcium reactors and Kalk stirrers.. I personally have not had this problem and my SPS are growing nicely.

One thing all these hobbyist have in common is they have a sand substrate. Is it possible that the detritus filled sand bottom is consuming all of there Alk and Calcium? This is my initial theory. Anyone out there have any "Hard scientific evidence" that could confirm this?

Later,

Jim

 

[aurorafish]

Every system is going to have different CA and ALK demands, and most increase as the corals mature. I dont think sand is a major player, more likely it the hard corals and algae. My reasoning is that I run one BB system 90 gallons and one DSB 125 gallons and neither one could survive without CA and ALK supplimentation. Maybe the year and a half mark is where they come up with the funds as initial tank expenses can add up substancially.

 

[JMBoehling]

Thanks aurorafish! I figured inhabitants make a big difference. I'm sure a reef with all Clams and masses of Calcium consuming Algaes would require Calcium additives, hence a reactor.

Any successful SPS Reefers out there with a reef over 2 years old just dosing with Mrs. Wages? If so, post a couple pics for me.. If not, guess I better start saving some cash for a Calcium reactor.

Later,

Jim

 

[aurorafish]

Ive run just kalk for the last 10 years, occasionally have to add turbo calcium to boost but it works very well. Waterchanges are your friend.

 

[jsweir]

I noticed that when I removed my sand, my alk demand dropped and I haven't directly added the alk of my two part additive since... I do drip kalk 24/7

 

[Sk8r]

My little 52, up since January, is now packed (as packed as I dare, considering reach and growth) with corals and a clam, and I'm now having to feed it a teaspoon and a half of Kent Turbo a day. I'm now seriously looking at a reactor.

 

[JMBoehling]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7315009#post7315009 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jsweir
I noticed that when I removed my sand, my alk demand dropped and I haven't directly added the alk of my two part additive since... I do drip kalk 24/7

That is what I am looking for.. Thank jsweir! That is a very similiar thing I am ruuning into. My Calcium stays around 410 and my Alk at 3.3 Meq/l just dripping Mrs. Wages 24/7...

But some friends of mine have similiar setups with the exeption they have either SSB or DSB's and the Kalk won't keep their Alk up... They are forced to add reactors etc., when possibly just removing the substrate would solve the problem.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[JMBoehling]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7315073#post7315073 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
My little 52, up since January, is now packed (as packed as I dare, considering reach and growth) with corals and a clam, and I'm now having to feed it a teaspoon and a half of Kent Turbo a day. I'm now seriously looking at a reactor.

Sk8r,

Do you have any substrate in your reef or in a remote refugium?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[Travis]

I think the sandbed is a major sink. I think it has a lot to do with all of the acidic activity going on in there. I ran a 75 gallon sps tank with a DSB. All top-off water was dosed with kalk and I had a calcium reactor rated for 900 gallons running very hard, about 180 BPM.

That tank crashed and now I have a 280 BB. I planned on using kalk for all top-off and a ca-reactor again as that is what I was used to with the last tank. This reef is stocked about the same but is 4 times the size. Turns out that adding kalk for top-off alone was even too much. I had to turn off my calcium reactor. And I had to adjust my top-off so only 50% of it was kalk and the other 50% straight RO/DI. Since this tank was 4 times as large as the last tank, the ca/alk demand should quadrupled. Instead, it cut down to about 1/4 of what it was before. If that is not enough to convince anyone that a sandbed is a major ca/alk sink then I don't know what will.

 

[bogg]

Are we talking about a DSB?. I am curious if a SSB would be have less demand. I am BB currently and am curious if I could get away with a SSB for looks.

 

[JMBoehling]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7319967#post7319967 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bogg
Are we talking about a DSB?. I am curious if a SSB would be have less demand. I am BB currently and am curious if I could get away with a SSB for looks.

One friend of mine has a SSB in his display and refugium. He drips Mrs. Wages but recently is having trouble keeping is Alk balanced with his Calcium.. So we are talking SSB and DSB's...

 

[Weatherman]

I observed the same thing with a shallow sand bed.

A little over a year ago, I was dosing saturated limewater into my 180 and couldnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t keep up with demand. I removed the sand, and the alk demand immediately dropped by 80%. I almost overdosed my tank with limewater the first couple of days after the sand was removed.

Since then (13 months ago), the alk demand has risen to a point where Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m dosing limewater at a concentration of about 1 tsp per gallon. So, even after more than a year without sand, the demand has only risen to less than half what is was originally.

I saw a repeat of the phenomenon in my 155. Was dosing saturated limewater and couldnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t keep up with demand. Removed the sand bed in Dec 2005, and demand dropped by 90%.

Unfortunately, Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve never read an adequate explanation for the phenomenon. But it is very common. About the only time it may not occur is if thereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a significant increase in nitrate following the sandbed removal. Incomplete conversion of ammonia to nitrate to nitrogen gas is an alkalinity consumer.

 

[bogg]

Thats funny that you guys say that, come to thinking I barely add kh buffer to my bb tank. For a while there I swear I didnt add it for months. No corraline and the combination of low kh and calcium aroud 400. I would imagine the only thing using ca, kh, would be the coral and maybe some snails if you have em. That and doing weekly water changes should attribute.