iamwrasseman
New member
install a grounding probe specifically made for aquarium use and find your problem asap .
Is stray Current Normal?
- Thread starter caliking
- Start date
The inhabitants will be fine, as they are not grounded. However, should that equipment fail beyond a minor electric there becomes a danger to anyone working with the tank was well as the possible corrosion of any metal causing problems for the critters in the tank. So the sooner the faulty equipment is found and replaced, the better for all.
surferboi2113
New member
Cheers Guys. I hopefully will be around to change it soon.
Thanks Bill and Dave!
Thanks Bill and Dave!
shrimphead
New member
aquariums are pritty dangerous really, the amount of times you hear my pumps failed or my heaters failed and you think if that person or even one of their kids had their hand in the tank at the time they would probably be killed.
i was working in my sump one day and whenever i put my hand in the tank i was feeling a stinging sensation inbetween the gap where your finger nail and finger meet. later that day i asked my lfs and they said it was just static electricity, if there was something coming from the heater or pump you'd be dead.went home and i tried turning my pump off and as soon as i did the stinging sensation went away. when i replaced the pump it was obvious the seam where the wire and the pump meet was damaged.
i was working in my sump one day and whenever i put my hand in the tank i was feeling a stinging sensation inbetween the gap where your finger nail and finger meet. later that day i asked my lfs and they said it was just static electricity, if there was something coming from the heater or pump you'd be dead.went home and i tried turning my pump off and as soon as i did the stinging sensation went away. when i replaced the pump it was obvious the seam where the wire and the pump meet was damaged.
shrimphead
New member
my uncle who works in a public aquarium told me one of his maintenance guys died from being electrocuted, whenever they have there hands in the tank they have to stand on this step ladder with rubber feet but he slipped of it and got electrocuted.
i was thinking i might get a rubber matt to stand on when working on my aquarium
i was thinking i might get a rubber matt to stand on when working on my aquarium
geaux xman
New member
well i stuck my hand in the tank and it shocked the SH*T out of me. i then borrowed my coworkers meter like the yellow one above. stuck the positive end in the tank and it read 5.8v my coworker told me that i needed to ground the negative end too, but i had already returned it to him.
it was because i had recently added an extension to my return pump and powerhead, and that extension didnt have a ground. i fixed that and i also added a ground probe.
it was because i had recently added an extension to my return pump and powerhead, and that extension didnt have a ground. i fixed that and i also added a ground probe.
crossleymarko
New member
ok sorry for the relife of this post, but here in the uk we have live .neutral and ground. when i put my meter accross ground and my water im reading 50v ac. and 0 on the mv setting. i am also picking voltage up on the earth/ground.
what does this mean.
what does this mean.
crossleymarko
New member
hahaha, just tried a cheap multi meter, 200 acv setting and it only shows 00.5v...
what gives..
crossleymarko
New member
bump, anyone.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Crossley, you need to measure current, not voltage. The current should be measure from the water to the earth ground, as that is the same path that is "shocking" you.
If there is current flowing, then you need to start turning off equipment until you find the source.
If there is current flowing, then you need to start turning off equipment until you find the source.
crossleymarko
New member
sorry bean,
i had a typo in my message. i wrote 0 mv instead of 0 mA. im not getting a shock. just lost a fish (strange),
im getting 50v with my meter i use for work, 26v is from my syncra pump. and the rest is light. :headwalls: and a cheap hobby meter is reading 00.5 v AC. but still 0 mA (Current)
as i stated before i have trace voltage on ground. also we have dc voltage hear..
thanks bean..
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
A few notes:
Your current is 50 Hz AC, not DC. The "voltage" you are reading is likely induced from the pump and pump wiring and lamps and therefore has no capability of any meaningful current. The voltage reading really is meaningless if you can not measure a current with it.
As far as the voltage on the "ground", exactly what are you measuring it in reference to?
Your current is 50 Hz AC, not DC. The "voltage" you are reading is likely induced from the pump and pump wiring and lamps and therefore has no capability of any meaningful current. The voltage reading really is meaningless if you can not measure a current with it.
As far as the voltage on the "ground", exactly what are you measuring it in reference to?
Mrs. Music
New member
I think the confusing part is that most of us do not really understand the difference between current, voltage, mA, Hz etc. It makes my brain hurt...
I had an issue in my fishroom where I got poked painfully while holding a plugged in heater, and touching running water. I have been studying a Black and Decker DIY home electric book, and I find it all very confusing. But I think we have figured it out. The faulty heater was plugged into a GFCI, but was not grounded, and by touching running water, I created a return for the faulty heater, and got shocked?
Bean, I loved, by that I mean, I actually understood, the scenario you laid out regarding the reflector becoming energized by salt creep. I don't understand how salt creep energized the reflector. Could you elaborate please.
I had an issue in my fishroom where I got poked painfully while holding a plugged in heater, and touching running water. I have been studying a Black and Decker DIY home electric book, and I find it all very confusing. But I think we have figured it out. The faulty heater was plugged into a GFCI, but was not grounded, and by touching running water, I created a return for the faulty heater, and got shocked?
Bean, I loved, by that I mean, I actually understood, the scenario you laid out regarding the reflector becoming energized by salt creep. I don't understand how salt creep energized the reflector. Could you elaborate please.
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BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Voltage can exist without current. In other words, the VOLTAGE is the potential that allows electricity to flow, sometimes compared to the PRESSURE that pushes water through plumbing.
Current can NOT exist without Voltage. The current is the "electricity" that flows through a wire or component. It is driven (pushed) though the circuit by the voltage.
Salt creep is conductive and can allow the voltage to to be present where it should not be. It should stay inside the lamp and socket but the conductive nature of the salt allows it to be present on the reflector if the3 salt creep bridges from the lamp end or socket, to the reflector. When you touch the reflector and a path to lower potential (ground) you get shocked because your body creates a path for current to flow.
Amps (or smaller divisions lile milliamps) are simply used to descirbe the amount of currnet flowing.
Volts (or smaller divisions like millivolts) are simply used to describe the amount of voltage present.
Hz (or smaller divisions like Kilohertz) are used to describe the number of times a second that Voltage swings from postive to negative when discussing Alternating Current.
There is an article on my site that goes into a bit more detail if you are interested:
http://beananimal.com/articles/electricity-for-the-reefer.aspx
I guess I should get around to finishing it someday.
Current can NOT exist without Voltage. The current is the "electricity" that flows through a wire or component. It is driven (pushed) though the circuit by the voltage.
Salt creep is conductive and can allow the voltage to to be present where it should not be. It should stay inside the lamp and socket but the conductive nature of the salt allows it to be present on the reflector if the3 salt creep bridges from the lamp end or socket, to the reflector. When you touch the reflector and a path to lower potential (ground) you get shocked because your body creates a path for current to flow.
Amps (or smaller divisions lile milliamps) are simply used to descirbe the amount of currnet flowing.
Volts (or smaller divisions like millivolts) are simply used to describe the amount of voltage present.
Hz (or smaller divisions like Kilohertz) are used to describe the number of times a second that Voltage swings from postive to negative when discussing Alternating Current.
There is an article on my site that goes into a bit more detail if you are interested:
http://beananimal.com/articles/electricity-for-the-reefer.aspx
I guess I should get around to finishing it someday.
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Paul B
Premium Member
Exactly. There is a lot of talk about how much engineering school people have and I am proud to say that I have not attended one day of college, but what I do have is 40 years experience as a Master Electrician in Manhattan, and over 50 years dealing with fish tanks and if the voltage is under 115 volts, don't worry about it because it is induced voltage. (I am sorry to say that I probably have been shocked more than everyone put together :spin2
If you have a broken heater, pump, light in the water etc. you will know it immediately as soon as you stick your hand in the water. Any leaking electrical device will give you the full 115-120 volts in the water. There isn't much resistance in salt water so that is the voltage you will get. 50 induced volts is meaningless. All AC devices near or in the water will generate some AC voltage and if you have a ground probe, it will go to ground, if you don't have a ground probe, the voltage will be non existant, until you put your meter in there. The meter will complete the circuit to ground.
Either way, don't worry about it, go out to dinner and have a nice glass of merlot. :beer:
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reefergeorge
New member
I have always been told to put a resistor in series with a grounded probe, and measure voltage drop across the resistor.
Would this have the same problem you guys are talking about?
This is just to test, not left in tank.
Would this have the same problem you guys are talking about?
This is just to test, not left in tank.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Yes, North America (and most of Central America) is on a 60 Hz system. However, my response was directly in context to crosslymarko who is posting from the UK. The UK (and most of Europe) is on a 50Hz system.
A GFCI can ONLY protect you in a situation where current being sourced on the HOT wire does NOT return on the NEUTRAL wire. If you grab hold of the hot and neutral, YOU become the load and the GFCI could care less and WILL NOT trip. This is a VERY important concept to understand.
Paul B
Premium Member
60 cycles is true but I don't see what that has to do with GFCIs or tingling. On 50 cycles, you will just tingle slower.
This is true, and a lot of people don't grasp that. If you use a ground probe, that will protect you in that instance (if your hands are in the water of course)
One more thing, a GFCI will also trip if you ground the neutral. I use this concept in all of my leak detectors around my boiler and my tank. I have a neutral wire and a ground wire on the floor under these potential leak sources and if you ground the neutral, it trips. Even though the neutral is at the same potential and it is grounded in the panel. the GFCI still detects the voltage loss returning on the neutral. If you have a GFCI (or a GFI as we call them in the trade) the neutral wire is connected to the GFI device so the GFI detects the difference in the amount of current going out on the hot wire returns on the neutral.
