Is there a worm or something that will eat bristleworms?

[sugartooth]

I would like to find something non fish or shrimp or crab that will eat bristleworms, and where I can obtain them.

I have 2 very large ones in my seahorse tank and I can't get them out short of tearing down my 130 gallon.
I have tried traps and they won't go near them. I am worried that the bristleworms will injure the ponies.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[pagojoe]

Hi ST,

There are probably some other options, but some of the most effective bristleworm predators are a couple species of cone snail. I'm not sure where you can get them (short of collecting them yourself, and none live in IL...), but Conus regius from Florida and the Caribbean feed primarily and maybe exclusively on bristleworms, and Conus imperialis from the Pacific do the same. Friends who kept both species in their tanks say the Caribbean cones will eat the Pacific worms, and that the Pacific cones will eat the Caribbean worms, so that shouldn't be a factor for you, if you can find either species. Neither species is thought to be dangerous to humans, although some components of Conus imperialis toxin are thought (or known?) to be active against vertebrates.

Some of the Florida suppliers may be able to get Conus regius for you, they're fairly common. Of course, they may starve to death eventually unless you have a breeding population of the worms in your tank.

Good Luck,



Don

 

[sugartooth]

Don,
Thank you a hundred times for the information. I will try and pursue this option, I've been trying to trap these worms for one week now and cannot get them. They are content to stay in plain sight half in the rock and half out.
I just feel it's a matter of time before an accident with the seahorses happen.
Thank you again!

 

[LeslieH]

Huh? Bristleworms attacking seahorses? I've heard this before & have yet to get any real evidence that it actually happens.

 

[sugartooth]

No, not purposely attacking seahorses. What I'm worried about is the bristle injuring the tails as they wrap around rocks as well as accidentally 'snicking' part of the bristle and injuring the snout. (If food happens to be near the worm)
This would open up opportunity for infection. These are very large and apparently not afraid of coming out during feeding, which makes me very nervous.

 

[sugartooth]

Anybody heard or have info on Warty Frog Conchs?
An article I came across cites: Bursa bufonia as specifically eating bristleworms....

 

[pagojoe]

Hmm, I just found that article, but it didn't quote the original source. Another article says they eat mainly sipunculids, but may eat other kinds of worms... I've kept Bursa bufonia, and other Bursa species, in my tank before, but I never saw what they were eating. They usually didn't last long though, because my cone snails would eat them if they got hungry. The article you referred to above says they are uncommon in nature, and that's why they aren't offered for sale. I think it's probably because they are ugly, more than anything else. There are lots of places where Bursa bufonia are abundant, as are Bursa granularis. I'd guess B. granularis might have a similar diet, so it might be worth trying if you could find them. I'd send you some if I were still in the Pacific.

Bursa grayana (formerly Bursa pacamoni) are found in the Caribbean, and look to be fairly closely related. Maybe a Caribbean supplier has those? They are a lot less common than the Pacific species, I believe. There is also a form of Bursa granularis that is found in the Caribbean, but again, I think they are somewhat rare.

Might be worth investigating. Cheers,



Don

 

[sugartooth]

Pagojoe (Don),
Thank you once again for your input. I copied your comments and sent them to the LFS I frequent and trust. He in turn asked his contacts and got similar feedback as what you have stated. So, his contact will go and gather some to send over. The store is going to put them in a small tank with bristleworms I catch the old fashioned way to confirm they will eat them and not harm others.

If this works I will be so relieved. Thanks again for the info!

 

[invertaman]

i heard arrow crabs will eat bristleworms, if you really want to get rid of them, but they will eat all othewr worms to...like dusters

 

[Bubbashrimp]

I live by a philosophy that the ancient greeks lived by "everything in moderation". Like aptasia, bristle worms are often the scapegoats in the reef keeping world. I do not even think that bristle worms are your problem.In fact, I think you should thank your lucky stars that these creatures found thier way into your tank because most likely, and cover your eyes if you dont want to read this, you are over feeding. But I do entirely sympathize with you because I drop a lot of money on live stock and do not want it to disapear in that fashion. However, if you look deep inside yourself is this fear of bristleworms based upon fact or is it on gossip? So by moderation I mean have mercy upon your bristle worms and try cutting back on the food you are giving them.

 

[sugartooth]

Thanks for the input invertaman and bubbashrimp.

I don't have a problem with bristleworms in general. I have a problem with bristleworms in my dedicated seahorse tank. I understand about overfeeding, however that is difficult to control in a seahorse tank as they need to be fed often and are very messy eaters. I also understand the purpose they serve as detrivores, however I have other types of detrivores that are seahorse friendly in the tank and would like to keep it that way.

In this case, I would rather not risk a wound to my ponies and have to treat it in a hospital tank, etc. if I can help it. Therefore I would really like to erradicate them from that tank (as well as any aptaisia).

It is a fact, not fiction, that they may pose a harm to seahorses. If you go to seahorse.org there are many discussions and accounts of wounds to seahorses.

In my reef, it's a different story. Unless I find something really harmful in the tank, I don't pull things out.

Thus far, I have been manually trapping until I can find a 'seahorse friendly' predator. The two largest worms just won't go in the traps, but I did manage to catch some others.

 

[Bubbashrimp]

Could you provide me with the link to "discussions and accounts of wounds on seahorses"

 

[sugartooth]

Bubbashrimp:
As I heard from you, there are two sides to every story. It will be a little bit time consuming (since I have been reading on and off for quite some time about this subject) to find all the posts about bristleworms.
For now, here is what I was able to find quickly.
Also, your point is correct, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I think some time ago, there was frequent posting by one or few people. So this, I did not pay attention. (I usually don't read people's sig too, I should though) Now, there are more 'accounts' about seahorse safety.

These are large (they don't fit in the traditional trap) bristleworms and I want them out.(most would agree to get rid of large ones, even in a reef tank) By the way, I don't torture or kill them after trapping like some people in seahorse.org would suggest. I simply pass them along to the LFS.

This thread they go back and forth here for the last few pages, but some chime in about why took the stance they did and allude to the other posts:
http://forum.seahorse.org/index.php?showtopic=8399&st=40

I would have to do a search and read through the threads to give you more examples. This was the fastest one I can find.

 

[Bubbashrimp]

I am not really taking a side to anything I am just trying to add something. Infact, I agree with you more than disagree with you. You are not completely ridding yourself of these worm is my understanding. You want a certain population of them to provide a steady diet for whatever predator you purchase.

I do not believe you nor disbelieve you about bristle worms attacking seahorse I am a skeptic like LeslieH i.e. I have no REAL proof.

by the way that link is pasword protected.

I also agree that most people get rid of large worms as well as an over population of worms...but you do not need to buy traps for this right? just use less food and/or a better delivery method such as a turkey baster type of item. it might take longer but you seem to be dedicated to there health.

I do know(not a specific name) of worms that eat aiptasia(reference given if needed), but i do not know of any that consume bristle worms but the first place I would check is:

Fauchald, K and P Jumars. 1979 "the diet of worms: a study of polychaete feeding guilds." Ocean Marine Biol Ann Rev 17:193-284.

 

[sugartooth]

Sorry about that Bubbashrimp! I guess many of those forums are only able to be read by members?

Well, the jist of that particular thread was a lot of PRO and AGAINST bristleworms started by a post asking how to rid bristleworms.

There were a couple of people saying they are beneficial, and most likely will NOT harm ponies. Later, there are posts that refer to previous experience and posts about their livestock being harmed. For example, one story was someone that caught bristleworms crawling on a pregnant horse, and another story about how people can be skeptical until they lose one of their ponies due to the properties of bristleworms.

On the other hand, there are posts that say they saw their seahorse snick mysis right next to (and including) a bristleworm and no ill effect.

I agree with this statement that was posted:

You can put a chimp in a room with gasoline and matches. Most likely the chimp will not start a fire, but would you even give matches to that chimp?
I thought it was funny and conveyed a similar feeling to what I have toward this subject.

Later in the thread, towards the last page.....a pro-bristleworm poster changed their tune and acknowledged that it may not be a good idea anymore.

This has gone on for quite some time in the seahorse forums from what I can tell, and more of the stories are recent.

As I mentioned, I've been reading about this for a while, and hesitated to act on it until I have proof.
Well, I kind of am nervous now after seeing the posts and how large mine are....the combination of the two really unnerves me.

I think the traps help a lot, I guess you don't have to buy them. Unfortunately, I don't have too much control over the feeding delivery method. My tank is 30" high, with the stand is over 5 feet tall. I have two spray bars that flank each side from top to bottom and the food blows all around. I have a powerhead that I do shut off for feeding, and that's about all I do to limit the spray of mysis.

I actually think I'm lucky compared to many seahorse keepers. Most of mine are active and chase down the mysis, others wait until it hits the sand.

I have not tried one of those 'squirt' feeders that are really long. Maybe I can try that as well.

Thanks for the information Bubba, it's much appreciated and I will definitely look into it.