Is this a suitable CuC for a 6-foot 180 gallon tank?

[Zionas]

x12 Cerith Snails

x12 Astraea / Trochus Snails

x12 Nassarius Snails

x9 Blue Leg Hermit Crabs

x9 Ted Leg Hermit Crabs

x12 Emerald Crabs

x12 Porcelain Crabs

x9 Peppermint Shrimp

x9 Common Cleaner Shrimp

x4 Banded Coral Shrimp


-I am thinking eventually having 18 of each Crab species.

-12 Peppermint and 12 Common Cleaner, maybe up to 8 Coral Banded Shrimp.

-18 of each type of snail.

-Maybe 18 of each type of Hermit Crab.

-Maybe a BTA for my Clownfish if tank does well after a tank least 6 months.

-Maybe some sea urchins but not sure how many / which species? Considering Longspine, Shortspine, Green, Pin Cushion.


Questions:

1. Will this be enough?

2. Which species can go in when I first start my tank?

3. How many of each species to go in when I first start my tank?

4. How big of a threat will my LNH and FH pose?

 

[Zionas]

Also forgot to add an Alpheus spp. Pistol Shrimp for my YWG.

Edit: WAY too many for my tank. I have narrowed it down to:

x9 Cerith Snails

x9 Astraea / Trochus Snails

x9 Nassarius Snails

x4 Blue Leg Hermits

x4 Red Leg Hermits

x2 Common Cleaner Shrimp

x2 Peppermint Shrimp

x2 Short Spine Urchins


What else can I add / remove?


Update: Found out mixing hermit crabs is not good.

x9 Trochus Snails

x9 Nassarius Snails

x9 Cerith Snails

x3 Peppermint Shrimp

x3 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp

x2 Short Spine Urchins

x2 Emerald Crabs

x12 Dwarf Blue Leg Hermit Crabs



Non-CuC:

x1 Mini Carpet Anemone + Porcelain Anemone Crab

x1 Tiger Pistol / Randall's Pistol Shrimp + YWG

x1 BTA (maybe, most hesitant about this one)

 

[galoot]

just order one from reefcleaners and be done with it =)

 

[Uncle99]

Ok, let's go through this.
If your system is new, I would keep your CUC to a bare minimum as there is not enough food in the tank to support your list.

There is some myth perpetuated by LFS that you need to have these large CUCs at keep detritus and algae in control. Don't fall for it. It's a complete lie. We used to call CUC as the never ending profit stream.

Work with your water, test everything, keep your nutrients in control through regular water changes, maybe Nopox if your nitrates are high. You should know the chemistry of your tank, all 8 parameters, at all times. The most successful tanks are all about stability.

I'm ok with snails list.
A BTA I would not introduce for 9 months. They required rock solid stable chemistry which is not possible for at least 6-9 months.

I never in 30 years ever put any crab whatsoever in my DT. They are all opportunity feeders and will surely enjoy your snails, as well as anything else they can catch. They don't consume much algae at all. Actually had one emerald which ate no algae but seemed to love hammer corals. If you love them then fine but you will be replacing stuff forever.

Peps are ok when they are small, but they grow to 2-3 inches in 6 months and are known to eat expensive corals and BTAs. If your not going for corals or nems, ok.

Urchins fine, but would starve in a new tank. Then they can release a toxin into your water.
They also will bulldozer corals in their path and strip purple coralline of your rock.

Exercise great caution with any carpet and again, are super demanding on water chemistry.

YTG pistol pair, yup that's a good one.
Skunk cleaner, yup.
Maybe a Fire Shrimp, but is a bit reclusive.

Have fun.

 

[Zionas]

Thanks. For a beginner Clean Up Crew, how can my list be altered / reduced? What do you think should go in with my first fish, if it were you? And at what rate should I add inverts?

I'll reconsider the BTA due to its need for tank maturity and I heard it also moves and can sting fish and corals. Are Mini Carpet Anemones just as demanding when it comes to tank maturity?

I'm going for corals and maybe (big maybe) some nems, so I guess I'll ditch the Peppermint Shrimp.

Unrelated but is it safe keeping 2 or 3 different species of Shrimp Gobies together? I'm thinking a YWG, a Pink Bar, and a Pink Spotted (same genus as the Yellow).

I heard the Hawkfish on my stocking list will eat inverts.

 

[Uncle99]

In a 180, 5-10 of the Nassauris, 5-10 of the ceriths and 10-20 Astrea.
Then let your system get used to their load and “see” if we need to supplement.
In this scenario, we can also lose a few without overbearing our initial cycle.
When your going through the ugly stages (from cycle to say 8 months) resist the thinking that if I add more, they will take care of the uglies. Not true. Yes I want to have some CUC turning sand, eating detritus and some algae, but don’t rely on them to fix.
The uglies end when certain bacteria’s populate your tank and these come with time.

I have historically lumped all nems into the minimum 6-9 maturity range as we know the DT will not have the stability before that. Could it work before 6 months sure, but many dwindle real slow, and you run the risk of it dying in your tank and releasing toxins which can kill.
So, we want to be real, real sure we’ve got that stability.

There’s are poster on this site which just advised that he has 8 peps and after clearing out all the Aptasia, (which is great) when on to eat a lot of very expensive coral. I have also made this error. Save your money.

Nems move but usually only when we change flow and/or light. Move and sting, yup, they can but it’s not on purpose.

A hawk fish would eat anything he can fit, however he’s generally not that big, but true.

I’m not sure about the gobies, I have not kept them before, so no experience.

You have a 180.....lots and lots of great choices avaiable.

Want some advice?
Make sure you use an ATO.......it’s as important as RODI. Salinity levels affect all so that one we gotta keep stable always, or nothing stable.

Buy every test kit......sorry
Best buy is Salifert for Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, CA, MG, Phosphate, iodine.
For Alk.....get the Hanna......
Absolutely learn these while your tank is maturing, you’ll need them much less in a year, but b6 this time your chemistry is rock solid.

Become a water expert in terms of its chemistry, making consistent perfect water parameters in NSW ranges and permitting as little flux as possible.

When this occurs and you can keep your water like this at all times, you won’t have much to clean for the CUC and you can spend your money on corals and fish.

When water is stable, each thing you toss in will thrive.

Now, enjoy the ride.

 

[Zionas]

Thanks for the info and encouragement, it’s really helpful.

I have made notes of parameters close to NSW, at least according LA. My salinity will be 1.025-1.026 as the ideal.

One more thing to note is my LFS cycles their live rock before putting them into customers’ tanks.


For my CuC:

x5-10 Nassarius Snails

x5-10 Cerith Snails

x10-20 Astraea / Trochus Snails (are they different from each other?)

x3 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp

x1 Fire Shrimp





Is this better?

 

[Uncle99]

Yup, looks great. Salinity fine.
Ensure you have cycled before fish.
You don't have to worry about Alk, CA and Mg at this time.
Yes listen to LFS, but check back here if want a second thinking.

My parameters are:
Temp 78
Salinity 1.025
Nitrate 15ppm
Phosphate 0.08ppm



How does the LFS ensure that there are no hitchhikers?

Many have crabs and worms and the like which show up after the tank has been set up and devastate your system. Many are real hard to get out.

Just some thoughts

 

[Nanorock4]

New 180, Check out reefcleaners for the packages they have. They have them picked out for the size of the tank you have....As a new tank, I would wait 3 weeks after you have added your first fish. You need stuff for the CUC to eat. Also Don't get the full package for a 180 tank, Get 1/4 size order because you don't want to load up the CUC before they have enough to eat and when you get them all at once, they can die all at once. Just phase them in over a few months. Also Emerald crabs are great when, either they are really small or you have bubble algae to get rid of. Once they get big and hungry, they will find other things in your tank to eat, like your fish. I had hermit crabs but found they were bugging my zoas when I fed reef roids to my corals and they are always attacking each other so they went. I have a snail only CUC in my tank and they do very well.

 

[Myles]

Too many astreas and trochus. They only eat algae so too many means some will starve to death and when they die it adds waste to the tank and is an avoidable death. Start with a few-I would suggest 5-6- and slowly build up as needed.
Serpent and brittle stars (not the green one which can catch fish) do a great job of finding any uneaten food so I would add some of these.
Myles

 

[Myles]

Sorry I forgot about the hawkfish. There is a high probability that the hawkfish will eat you shrimp so you will need to decide which you prefer.
My guess would be that the tiger pistol shrimp alpheus bellus is tough enough to be ok with the hawk but I never tried this combination so do not know for certain.
Myles

 

[Zionas]

Are you suggesting that I add a couple of snails first and only Snails? If so, which species would be best to start with?

I’ve looked into brittle stars before, but do they require really sensitive acclimation procedures and high water quality?

Pretty much given up on getting Pistol Shrimp so I’ll just be sticking to them gobies. [MENTION=116634]Sk8r[/MENTION] told me that Pistol Shrimps she had ended up killing or wounding her Gobies, if I had to choose between the shrimp and the fish the fish wins hands down.

 

[Myles]

Not necessary to put the snails in first or limit your cleanup crew to snails only. My only point is that with strict herbivores there needs to be more than enough food so the don't starve and die. Therefore with the astreas and/or trochus start with just a few and add as needed rather than starting with 10 and watching a die off of snails which feeds into an algae problem rather than solves one.
With brittle/serpent stars the acclimation does need to be done slowly mostly to equalize the salinity between your supplier's water and your tank water. This is
not difficult to do and once in your tank the stars are extremely hardy,fun to watch, and their legs get into all kinds of nooks and crannies to get any uneaten food.
As far as alpheus shrimp: If the goby is too small or to skinny for the shrimp there is some danger. With the appropriate goby and shrimp there really is not going to be a problem. I love watching this combination and have had a shrimp/goby aquarium with different shrimps and gobies for 25 years without issue.

 

[Zionas]

Great. At the 3 month mark for my CuC I hope to have maybe 5-6 Trochus Snails, the 3 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp and 1 Fire Shrimp. Would that be too many as a start? I will add more CuC as time goes on to incorporate more Snails and sea stars. No Urchins as I don’t want them to move corals around and Hermit crabs kill Snails.

 

[Myles]

Just keep your fish list in mind if you are going to add shrimp. I see that you are thinking about some larger wrasses which could pose a threat to shrimp.
Myles

 

[Zionas]

Which larger wrasses are you speaking of?

 

[Myles]

The hogfish which you eliminated would have greatly enjoyed devouring many of your mobile inverts. The ornate wrasse is a large robust fish as an adult. I have never seen one eat so do not know how large the mouth is and therefore what inverts it is likely to eat but I would investigate that before purchase.
Myles

 

[Zionas]

The Hogfish has already been scrapped from my list. A shame because it is a very beautiful wrasse to have, so is the Ornate, but I’ll be investigating the Ornate further. If I remember correctly it’s a Hawaiian endemic?

 

[Myles]

Yes it is an endemic. I have never kept one so don't how nicely it plays with others but because of its size and bulk I would be suspicious when it comes to inverts.
Myles

 

[RioReefr]

Sorry I forgot about the hawkfish. There is a high probability that the hawkfish will eat you shrimp so you will need to decide which you prefer.
My guess would be that the tiger pistol shrimp alpheus bellus is tough enough to be ok with the hawk but I never tried this combination so do not know for certain.
Myles

Not high probability. He WILL for certainly eat him and other shrimp. As soon as the shrimp molts, he will be a goner. I had a Purple Dottyback do the same thing. Shrimp molts and becomes a nice little snack.

Coral-banded shrimps are quite aggressive IMO, my Yellow Tang was terrified of him. I got rid of the coral-banded shrimp after 1 day becuase I liked my Tang a lot more.

Also, crabs are notorious for knocking over corals. Be prepared to stick your arm in the tank daily to put stuff back.

Cleaner-shrimp are cool -- but they do just that, eat everything including things like Copepods. If you have any Blenny type species, they will out-compete each other.

Just my opinion, but I think beautiful fish are SO MUCH cooler to see than a massive CUC.

Basically, you are going to have a bunch of bottom dwellers with some super passive fish like Clownfish and Chromis. If that is what you are after, then go for it!