Is this LR doomed?

[dirtyvegas]

Thats an awefull mess sean. Sory for your loss

 

[reefkeeperrut]

agree w/Sean on the cooking process. It does work - the proof is in the bottom of the dunking containers.

It's easy for some to bash what they've never tried.

 

[kbmdale]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6698495#post6698495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefkeeperrut
agree w/Sean on the cooking process. It does work - the proof is in the bottom of the dunking containers.

It's easy for some to bash what they've never tried.

NOBODY EVER SAID IT DID NOT WORK.... What was said and you don't get, Its not gonna fix a lack of coraline algae on his rock.... It is not the first solution to most problems. all it is going to do is frustrate a guy who watched nd empty tank while his rock cooked for 6 weeks when he pulls it out to find less coraline than before....

 

[dirtyvegas]

ok can sombody clear up "cooking rock" 4 me please, never hear this term before..?

 

[SeanT]

Here is the process.

Originally posted by SeanT
The purpose of "cooking" your rocks is to have the bacteria consume all (or as much) organic material and PO4 stored on, and in, the rock as possible.

The first step to this is commitment.
You have to be willing to remove your rock from the tank.
It doesn't have to be all at once, but I feel if you are going to do this do it all. In stages if that is easier but make sure that all of it gets done.

The new environment you are creating for your rock is to take it from an algal driven to a bacterial driven system.
In order to do this, the rock needs to be in total darkness to retard and eventually kill the algae's on the rock and to give the bacteria time to do the job.

So basically you need tubs to hold the rock.

Equipment needed.
1. Dedication.
2. Tubs to cook rock in. And an equal amount of tubs to hold the rock during waterchanges.
3. A few powerheads.
4. Plenty of buckets.
5. A smug feeling of superiority that you are taking it to "the next level."
6. Saltwater, enough made up to follow the instructions below and to replenish your tank after removing rocks.
Here are the steps:

1. Get into your head and accept the fact you will be making lots of salt water if you aren't lucky enough to have access to filtered NSW.
2. Explain to significant other what is going on so they don't flip out. This process can take up to 2 months. Prepare them in advance so he/she can mark it on the calendar and that they won't nag about it until that date arrives.
3. Setup a tub(s) where the rock is to be cooked. Garages are great for this.
4. Make up enough water to fill tub(s) about halfway and around 5-7 buckets about 60% full.
5. Remove all the rock you want to cook at this stage. (The rock can be removed piece by piece until you are done.) I suggest shutting off the circulation beforehand to minimize dust storms.
6. Take the first piece of rock and dunk it, swish it, very, very well in the first bucket. Then do it again in the 2nd bucket, then the third.
7. Place rock in the tub.
8. Repeat steps 6 & 7 to every piece of rock you want to cook at this time. The reason I suggested 5-7 buckets of water will be evident quickly...as the water quickly turns brown.
9. Place powerhead(s) in the tub and plug in. Position at least one powerhead so that it agitates the surface of the water pretty well. This is to keep the water oxygenated. You can use an air pump for additional oxygenation if you wish. Only one powerhead per tub is needed. Remember the powerheads main responsibility is the oxygenation of the water.
10. Cover the tub. Remember, we want TOTAL darkness.
11. Empty out buckets, restart circulation on main tank.
12. Wait.
13. During the first couple of weeks it is recommended to do a swishing and dunking of the rocks twice a week.
What this entails is to make up enough water to fill up those buckets and the tub the rock is in.
First, lay out your empty tub(s) and fill buckets the same as before.
Then, uncover tub with the rock in it. Take a rock and swish it in the tub it's in to knock any easy to get off junk.
Then, swish it thru the 3 buckets again, and place in the empty tub..
Repeat for all your rocks.
Then empty the tub that all the rocks were cooking in, take it outside and rinse it out with a hose.
Place tub back where it was, fill with new saltwater, add rocks and powerheads, and cover.
Wait again until the next water change.
You will be utterly amazed at how much sand, silt, detritus is at the bottom of the tub and every bucket. It is amazing.
At times the stench was so strong I gagged.

How it works:

Some FAQ's.
When re-introducing the rock to my tank, a month or two from now, should I do that in parts to help minimize any cycling effect(s)...if there are any?
I never have. Really after a very short while, the ammonium cycle has been established. That's not what you're worry about though, it's the stored phosphates and that you have to wait it out.
When they are producing very little detritus - you'll know - then I would use them all at once.

Would running Carbon filtration and/or a PO4 reducing media help/hurry/hinder the process?
I wouldn't fool with it. You don't want the detritus to sit there long enough to rot, release water soluble P again. You want to take it out while it's still locked up in that bacterial detritus.

I would say that 85% of my exposed rock had Bryopsis (hair algae) covering it.
There isn't a single visible strand on any rocks my tank now.
Remember, the key is patience. Let this process run its course.

And a few last minute tidbits I remembered.
Your coralline will die back, recede etc.
My thoughts on this are GREAT!
Now my rock is more porous for additional pods, mysids, worms etc.
Coralline will grow back.
Throughout this process the sponges, and pods on my rock have not died off.
Every time I do a water change they are there and plentiful.

Remember, once you place your rock back into your tank you will need a specialized cleanup crew.
I recommend Astrea's and Cerith's, 2 to 1.
-Astrea's are great at harvesting algae.
-Cerith's are great at harvesting other algae - and - astrea poop.
-Cerith's will make the astrea poop easier for you to harvest with a skimmer.

Taken from the "How to go Barebottom thread."

But remember, you do not need to run a barebottom tank to benefit from rock "cooking".

hth,
Sean

 

[SeanT]

And actually, in the long run it WILL help with coraline.
"Cooking" rocks removes phosphates.
Phosphates inhibit calcification.
Less phosphates = easier coraline growth.

 

[andycook]

Removing a saturated sandbed wil also help coraline growth.

 

[Highlander]

Wow Sean T,,
So much for trying to get some empirical evidence asked for nicely!!!
I was sorry to hear about the tank meltdown, it wasn't a thread that I had followed.

However, I still have not seen any tanks with cooked rock after say six months in "use" which is what I was hoping to see.

Here's why:
I have a 120 with about 100 lbs of cooked rock which I purchased on RC, in there , and perhaps 50 lbs that came from another tank without cooking.
After two months I have good coraline growth on the sides of the tank, and on the older rock, however the cooked rock still looks as sterile as pumice, and not at all attractive.
So what does this stuff look like with some months on it?

I have also read of aggressive algaes taking over on cooked rock in lack of competition from more benign species. That would be a concern. Any one have any experience of that.

 

[Johnsteph10]

I don't remember Sean saying initially that cooking rock with directly promote corraline growth - but just above he states how it will affect it directly.

Sean is very helpful and always willing to discuss things. There are those detractors out there that only serve to disagree. I don't see where they offered helpful advice in this thread.

The rock is likely loaded with crap - literally and figuratively. If this was rock fresh from the ocean loaded with life it might be different. You'll only encounter more obstacles in the long run if you don't start out with the best possible chances...

In this case - rock cooking is a great way to clean up the rock. Good corraline growth will come with good husbandry skills.

 

[kbmdale]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6698880#post6698880 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
And actually, in the long run it WILL help with coraline.
"Cooking" rocks removes phosphates.
Phosphates inhibit calcification.
Less phosphates = easier coraline growth.

you do realize that the moment you add fish, food, anything to the tank the rock starts sucking up phosphates agian.. Yes you are starting with clean rock but its just a matter of time before its right back where it was that made you cook it. Are you gonna cook it agian. But once agian the point was he has waited 2 months and no coraline progress, came here looking for an solution he could jump start it with and got COOK YOUR ROCK (which means wait about 3 more months for coraline growth)...LOL great advice.

 

[Trigeek]

I've read ALL of the posts on ALL of the rock cooking threads and feel I have a really good grasp of what is accomplished with it. My question comes in regard to the corraline algae. I've seen the "after" pics and do not see much if any purple encrusted rock. I'm going to switch everything over to a 90g soon and would cook but for this reason. I do not have problems with nuisance algae but would like to do everything I can to start this system to not allow for problems (many factors go into this, not just the rock cooking). If I could see some after pics of good, purple rock, then I'm sold. I saw Weatherman's tank, which looks very pristine, but in the 8 month after-shot he had, the rock was still clean of corraline. Like I said, I don't have problems so cooking isn't a necessity, but I would do it if not for fear of losing the corraline. I haven't seen any proof to make me feel comfortable otherwise. I may cook some of the stuff I use on the bottom but just dunk and swish to pretty purple rock (something similar to what Sinjin did) a few times until the setup is ready to go. Anyone care to post some after pics of their pretty purple cooked rock?

Pete

 

[dirtyvegas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6698880#post6698880 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
And actually, in the long run it WILL help with coraline.
"Cooking" rocks removes phosphates.
Phosphates inhibit calcification.
Less phosphates = easier coraline growth.

IMO thats totally fine and it sounds awesome. Think about it, when you buy your rock at the stores they do the same thing but far worse conditions.

I just have 2 question sean, what about a desired temperature during this process what is it.? How often or when exactly would this be reccommend.?

dv

 

[kbmdale]

If you wanna start with clean rock get dry base rock, its as clean as you can get, no life at all. It will coraline up in 2-3 months and will be seeded with life within weeks of being introduced to the tank...

 

[dirtyvegas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6699161#post6699161 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Trigeek
I've read ALL of the posts on ALL of the rock cooking threads and feel I have a really good grasp of what is accomplished with it. My question comes in regard to the corraline algae. I've seen the "after" pics and do not see much if any purple encrusted rock. I'm going to switch everything over to a 90g soon and would cook but for this reason. I do not have problems with nuisance algae but would like to do everything I can to start this system to not allow for problems (many factors go into this, not just the rock cooking). If I could see some after pics of good, purple rock, then I'm sold. I saw Weatherman's tank, which looks very pristine, but in the 8 month after-shot he had, the rock was still clean of corraline. Like I said, I don't have problems so cooking isn't a necessity, but I would do it if not for fear of losing the corraline. I haven't seen any proof to make me feel comfortable otherwise. I may cook some of the stuff I use on the bottom but just dunk and swish to pretty purple rock (something similar to what Sinjin did) a few times until the setup is ready to go. Anyone care to post some after pics of their pretty purple cooked rock?

Pete

You can always seed the tank again if coraline dies back to give it a "boost" of coraline growth. get a good piece of coraline LR at your LFS. Smash it up with a hammer and dump it on your "cooked" LR and there ya go. IVe dont this before it takes time but it works great.

Dv

 

[gman0526]

Damn coralline won't grow back !!!! This is 4 mos. after "killing" the rock.

 

[dirtyvegas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6699256#post6699256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gman0526
Damn coralline won't grow back !!!! This is 4 mos. after "killing" the rock. CLOWNS

I hope your being sarcastic here.. Rock looks awesome bro goodjob

dv

 

[gman0526]

Me sarcastic? Never... I'm just misinformed

 

[gman0526]

This is what LR looks like after 9 mos of "cooking", yes 9 mos!!! Arconom's tank. Check pages 7 and 9 for pics of when it was first setup after "cooking" the rock...again 9 mos . And check page 24 for latest pics where you can see the "ghost coralline" growing on the rocks. Read the whole thing is a great thread, he also had problems with the low nutrient algae mentioned b4 after "cooking" the rock.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=651775

 

[SeanT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6699052#post6699052 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Highlander
However, I still have not seen any tanks with cooked rock after say six months in "use" which is what I was hoping to see.

Sounds like you haven't looked very hard then.
Bomber, Weatherman and many others have tanks older than 6 months with "cooked" rock.
Search their names and galleries and you will have pics galore.

 

[SeanT]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6699112#post6699112 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kbmdale
but its just a matter of time before its right back where it was that made you cook it.

Really? Is it?
At what rate with good husbandry?
1 month? 1 year? 1 decade?
Tell me.

Mine is at over a year and I have no bryopsis, diatoms, dinoflagellates, cyano bacteria.
I do have a bit of valonia left.
But it is receeding.