It's time, let's see those SPS tanks using LEDs 1 year or longer

[MedRed]

:hmm5:

Is that all you have to say??.... I would expect you to say

" Yes, it seems LED's have worked on this occasion."

Period!.
Mo

What he said.... (sometime its best to stop digging when you find yourself in a hole)

Junio, nice tank, nice colors. LED from the start? Another example of LEDs working.

I'm using T5s and am happy with my results, but am considering this next generation of LEDs.

I said what I had to say which is a nice way of saying that the only thing "working" in these videos is blue LEDs causing the florescence with the biggest pop coming from the pink and green LPS and birdsnests. The colonies themselves are beautiful in size and the tanks look great... but once again... the colors are still less than an equitable T5 or MH tank.

The best colors shown so far were the Zeovit tank, and compared to its peers... it's still lacking in color.

 

[acesq]

I said what I had to say which is a nice way of saying that the only thing "working" in these videos is blue LEDs causing the florescence with the biggest pop coming from the pink and green LPS and birdsnests. The colonies themselves are beautiful in size and the tanks look great... but once again... the colors are still less than an equitable T5 or MH tank.

The best colors shown so far were the Zeovit tank, and compared to its peers... it's still lacking in color.

You don't like the colors Junio has achieved? I do.

(and I see some, but not much, difference between the two sides of Dave's tank)

I'm convinced LEDs can produce colors and growth on par with MH and T5. I'm also convinced that it's harder to do, primarily because we have so many fewer users to learn from. But we will get there.

 

[Exotic Reef.]

Left MH
Right LEDS

Both the same coral led just poop on mh


Owner ozoneparkguy live few miles from me

 

[karsseboom]

Top MH
Bottom LEDS

Both the same coral led just poop on mh

I have no idea where your going with this? poop on mh? You do know mh is the most proven method for growing corals right?

 

[Exotic Reef.]

Ok but you do see the difference. And mh just has alot of negative facts that leds dont have. Me i dont talk crap about t5 or mh cuz i have not been a owner of ether but seen them both in action and there nothing better then the natural sunlight that reel reefs have

 

[MedRed]

I see an LED picture with the color so boosted the sand is bluer than i've ever seen in any coral picture in my life.

 

[MedRed]

You don't like the colors Junio has achieved? I do.

(and I see some, but not much, difference between the two sides of Dave's tank)

I'm convinced LEDs can produce colors and growth on par with MH and T5. I'm also convinced that it's harder to do, primarily because we have so many fewer users to learn from. But we will get there.

Take a look at the pictures. a lot of those pieces haven't encrusted the frag plugs let alone had time to settle in under LED. Looking at the individual pictures you can see corals not having the colors they would under T5 or MH. And that's with top down shots. The Zeovit tank posted earlier had "nice" color but still wasn't as good as any of the other non LED Zeovit tanks. As I've stated before... the colors aren't horrible... they are just less than MH or T5. The biggest issue comes with the loss of certain color characteristics that just don't show up under LED.

 

[Moser]

Mo,

Here's the pic you just posted..........why is that red table in the upper right corner so flat & bland when the green acro & the blue tip green acro just above it are popping?

[/IMG]


Don't misinterpret me.................I'm exited about LEDs but I'm not satisfied yet. This thread on the local site has a great video & some of my thoughts in that thread. I'm no expert on that stuff but I can read charts & evaluate things. Watch the video it's very good.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2195086

Also here's an article by Dana Riddle that will help you understand corals have different pigments & will only flourece under the correct conditions for that pigment.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature1

The red Hyacinthus is red. It's the angle you see it from in the photo that brings it out like that.
Look at the yellow green monti....it's fluoro green in other shots!!.

Look at the pink Hystrix below left. You just catch it, but it's pink??..... I understand you are picking out a specific weakness in LEDs, ie reds and pinks, but Ehsan has already addressed that. His reds and pinks actually appear red and pink!.

Thanks for the links, but I understand all that already....... I didn't dare post on this thread with zero knowledge. I saw the treatment given to JaneG when she entered the den!.

Mo

Ps. Here is my Desalwii at less than ideal angle and a better angle..... Same coral different view, under MH/ T5, before you insult it. The first shot looks much the same as the coral shot you are criticising in Ehsan's tank??!, yet when he takes a shot to show off that coral, you ignore it!. Same with the Hyacinthus. The camera is set for one coral and you choose to ignore that and look at something out of focus in the background???......!

 

[MedRed]

It just seems like the LED crowd is grasping at straws to come up with a stunning example of LEDs being equal to MH and T5. So far there hasn't been a single example of an LED tank matching up to its equal in traditional lighting.

 

[Jaysreefworld]

That's just what I mean MH and T5 are for those who want best success.
How do you judge this??.

Mo

How many LED tanks are you using to TRY to prove your point? 2 or 3

Can you even start to count the number of successful tanks using traditional lighting? I'll help you with your answer NO

Thats how i judge that.

To be frank, Leds have been out long enough for many ppl to fill them out, If the batch of led fixtures that are currently available had the ability to compare with traditional lighting we would see the results by now.

But this is just my $.02

 

[JaneG]

Seeing as how I now have something new to add... for the sake of discussion, I'll just leave this here:

From Japan. :inlove: Personally, Id kill for a tank with these candy colors. And I should point out that both pink birdsnest and stylophora do NOT fluoresce pink - their colors are due to nonfluorescent pigments.

 

[Soy]

leds make sps look slightly pale compared to halides. you cant judge based on pics. seen both side by side with the same sps corals. will hold off on leds till i have a major tank crash and i switch to lps corals. the blues are awesome!

 

[MedRed]

Ps. Here is my Desalwii at less than ideal angle and a better angle..... Same coral different view, under MH/ T5, before you insult it. The first shot looks much the same as the coral shot you are criticising in Ehsan's tank??!, yet when he takes a shot to show off that coral, you ignore it!. Same with the Hyacinthus. The camera is set for one coral and you choose to ignore that and look at something out of focus in the background???......!

Dude... no. You have a full spectrum photo vs a blue/UV photo (judging from the strips across the tank). It's obvious the first photo that you can get a real look at the color of the polyps and the tips of the corals. Polyps typically do not change color in regards to side view vs top down unless they are shaded. Can you link me this tank? I want to read up on it.

How many LED tanks are you using to TRY to prove your point? 2 or 3

Can you even start to count the number of successful tanks using traditional lighting? I'll help you with your answer NO

Thats how i judge that.

To be frank, Leds have been out long enough for many ppl to fill them out, If the batch of led fixtures that are currently available had the ability to compare with traditional lighting we would see the results by now.

But this is just my $.02

I agree

Seeing as how I now have something new to add... for the sake of discussion, I'll just leave this here:

From Japan. :inlove: Personally, Id kill for a tank with these candy colors. And I should point out that both pink birdsnest and stylophora do NOT fluoresce pink - their colors are due to nonfluorescent pigments.

I love the arrangement of corals in this tank. Even still you can see the blue cast from the whites being toned down and the blues ramped up. And you still have muted colors for everything that isn't fluorescing. I can post any number of traditional lighting tanks that will make these colors look "less than" just like they are.

It's a beautiful tank nonetheless... it's still color deficient compared to traditionally lit tanks.

 

[Tony B (UK)]

I was interested to see David Saxby running LED's and also Stuart Bertram. Vested interest?, yes, but also a lot to lose!!.

Hi Mo,

Two points on those two guys. Yep we all know they're the distributors of a certain brand of LED unit, that aside:

Stuart - his reef was well grown out before he put the LEDs over his corals, so lights that are able to sustain his corals, are something far different from a system that has been set up with LEDs from the start and, where frags can be seen growing into huffing great colonies with crazy colours.

David - he is using T5s with his LEDs. What does this tell me, personally? It tells me he did not feel LEDs alone would do the job, if they were man enough, he wouldn't use T5s as well.

The guy who makes the Triton units (I forget his name), you posted a video to his tank. I think it looks awesome, imho it is a world class tank, perhaps he has got a better understanding of how to produce LED units? I think more lower wattage diodes will be the future, as it creates a blanket coverage akin to how T5s work. I also think that one of the major problems with LEDs right now may be the over-focus of light, which zaps the bejebus out of some areas and does a poor job elsewhere.

Reefbloke is the one to watch, he has frags and LEDs, so the results will say a lot. He absolutely has an amazing talent for growing SPS, there's no question of that. He also has some of my frags, so the genetic potential of the corals is 'there' so now we've just got to wait and see how he does.... He is a very good candidate for proving LEDs, I am watching his results with great interest.

There's always talk of how will LEDs get proven if none of the gurus try them. The trouble is, they're expensive and why should I try them? Why should I risk the health and colour of my system? I'm just not prepared to do that, it's like me bringing out a new additive or media and saying "Hey I'm not sure if this liquid Mental-Colour will work very well, I'm going to charge you the earth for it, do you want to buy it?" What would you say!

At the moment the only LEDs I would consider suitable are the Tritons, but I still don't think they're an optimum light source, yeah they work fairly well, but I got to admit I think the results could be better under T5s and halides.

If LEDs were well proven and if they were cheap, perhaps I may consider them. They're still far too young for my liking, they will get there eventually, I am fairly sure of that. They will also become far far cheaper too.


Tony

 

[Moser]

Mo,

Did you read my comments about pastel colored systems.........I'm not a fan of 'em regardless of light. I'm not sure what it is I'm evaluating? Yes, they look good if you like all your acros pastel & use zeo.

This is my concern quoted above from my other post.........

"everytime I've seen these only LED tanks, where's the popping red & for a lesser matter pink.? I've seen a lot of pink stylos & bird nest, but the acros are always flat looking unless they are blue, green or dark purple."

"Green acros always pop the most under these LED tanks."


Montis seem be fine, but not all acros look good.

Which of these red hyacinthus tables would you rather have?

MH & supplements--

[/IMG]

LED

I wasn't going to qualify your post, but....

You keep picking on the weaker points of previous led systems, that have only just been addressed. Newer LED technology produces lovely red and pinks as the spectrum is now included in newer led systems. Ehsan has lovely pinks and reds. His hystrix looks lovely.

Your pictures are silly examples. You take a suiting example from a LED tank and the best from MH/T5 ( probably photoshopped) and post it... what's the point?. Are you showing photo skills/ reefing skills or attributes of lighting technology?. There are too many variables for you to just make such a statement with those two pictures. You should know better than that!.


Mo

 

[Moser]

I said what I had to say which is a nice way of saying that the only thing "working" in these videos is blue LEDs causing the florescence with the biggest pop coming from the pink and green LPS and birdsnests. The colonies themselves are beautiful in size and the tanks look great... but once again... the colors are still less than an equitable T5 or MH tank.

The best colors shown so far were the Zeovit tank, and compared to its peers... it's still lacking in color.

No point debating with a closed mind....

Mo

 

[Moser]

I see an LED picture with the color so boosted the sand is bluer than i've ever seen in any coral picture in my life.

Is it the photo boosted, or just that led's make the sand look bluer?.

Mo

 

[Moser]

Dude... no. You have a full spectrum photo vs a blue/UV photo (judging from the strips across the tank). It's obvious the first photo that you can get a real look at the color of the polyps and the tips of the corals. Polyps typically do not change color in regards to side view vs top down unless they are shaded. Can you link me this tank? I want to read up on it.



I agree



I love the arrangement of corals in this tank. Even still you can see the blue cast from the whites being toned down and the blues ramped up. And you still have muted colors for everything that isn't fluorescing. I can post any number of traditional lighting tanks that will make these colors look "less than" just like they are.

It's a beautiful tank nonetheless... it's still color deficient compared to traditionally lit tanks.

My point was only that you take a shot of a coral and it's the coral that is the focus you should pay attention to, not one in the background. The same coral can look brown if the shot is different. I showed you a coral that looks just as good as a MH tank, from Ehsan's tank. You then look at a different shot of the coral and claim how brown it looks. My example was to illustrate how that can happen, even in MH/ T5 tanks.

Mo

 

[Moser]

Hi Mo,

Two points on those two guys. Yep we all know they're the distributors of a certain brand of LED unit, that aside:

Stuart - his reef was well grown out before he put the LEDs over his corals, so lights that are able to sustain his corals, are something far different from a system that has been set up with LEDs from the start and, where frags can be seen growing into huffing great colonies with crazy colours.

David - he is using T5s with his LEDs. What does this tell me, personally? It tells me he did not feel LEDs alone would do the job, if they were man enough, he wouldn't use T5s as well.

The guy who makes the Triton units (I forget his name), you posted a video to his tank. I think it looks awesome, imho it is a world class tank, perhaps he has got a better understanding of how to produce LED units? I think more lower wattage diodes will be the future, as it creates a blanket coverage akin to how T5s work. I also think that one of the major problems with LEDs right now may be the over-focus of light, which zaps the bejebus out of some areas and does a poor job elsewhere.

Reefbloke is the one to watch, he has frags and LEDs, so the results will say a lot. He absolutely has an amazing talent for growing SPS, there's no question of that. He also has some of my frags, so the genetic potential of the corals is 'there' so now we've just got to wait and see how he does.... He is a very good candidate for proving LEDs, I am watching his results with great interest.

There's always talk of how will LEDs get proven if none of the gurus try them. The trouble is, they're expensive and why should I try them? Why should I risk the health and colour of my system? I'm just not prepared to do that, it's like me bringing out a new additive or media and saying "Hey I'm not sure if this liquid Mental-Colour will work very well, I'm going to charge you the earth for it, do you want to buy it?" What would you say!

At the moment the only LEDs I would consider suitable are the Tritons, but I still don't think they're an optimum light source, yeah they work fairly well, but I got to admit I think the results could be better under T5s and halides.

If LEDs were well proven and if they were cheap, perhaps I may consider them. They're still far too young for my liking, they will get there eventually, I am fairly sure of that. They will also become far far cheaper too.


Tony

Hi Tony,

Stuart. Ehsan's tank proves the growth issue. Stuart has balls to switch. He must have had some confidence in them to do it though?!.

David. T5 are sups. Take the LED's out, will the (relatively) few T5's he has sustain growth or colour in his tank?. I doubt it. The T5's are for fill in. As we all know the AI's spread is limited, so some fill in is required if not filling out with more led units.

Agree with your comment about Ehsan's Triton tank.. It's a shame MedRed has closed his mind so much that he can't see the wood for the trees when it comes to LED's. I'm just giving credit where it is due. I agree with the coverage with LED's. We also know that MH have the same issue ( albeit less so) and that is one of the reasons we supp with T5. We seem to be comparing 2 technologies MH and T5 Vs one LED.

Reefbloke- I agree. It's a shame that you didn't follow suit, as your skills are as good and it's such reefers that can only prove it. They all seem to be taking a back seat though :whistling:

There are enough LED tanks out there to prove that you would possibly be only risking colour, not growth etc?....

I'm sure LED's will continue to improve.... only if we invest in the technology as end users.

Mo

 

[Moser]

It just seems like the LED crowd is grasping at straws to come up with a stunning example of LEDs being equal to MH and T5. So far there hasn't been a single example of an LED tank matching up to its equal in traditional lighting.

??
This is getting beyond a joke. i think your myopia needs correction.

:wave:
Mo