I've never seen this; anyone?

[Deleted member 143833]

I notices something on my Flasher Wrasse today and it doesn't look good. The fish does not appear stessed, if eating like a pig, simming well, etc. Basically it is showing no signs that something is wrong but as you can see (hopefully) from the images there is something. I am (fairly) certain that it is not Ick, it appears more (to me) like something took a tear at its fin but I also haven't seen anyone acting aggresive. Any ideas?

 

[Percula9]

Remove fish to quarantine and treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic.

 

[JHemdal]

Percula9,

You wrote (again) : "Remove to quarantine and treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic".

Come on, are you just trying to build you post count? You keep responding to people with exactly the same advice, no follow up questions or anything. If you won't want to take the time to investigate the problem carefully, then at least tell the people that you are just giving them a cursory answer.

In this case, you need to know what other fish are in the tank, how long the person has had the fish, and if the pectoral fin is eroded away (like it seems to be in one picture). You also need to specify what you mean by "broad spectrum antibiotic" - the person could end up choosing erythromycin, which will nuke their bio-filter AND not be effective against gram negative bact.

I would also check to see if the tank has any strongly stinging anemones or corals in it.

JHemdal

 

[Deleted member 143833]

I thought about the same stuff (including treatment) but I am always cautious to do that since the stress of the capture and move may be worse that the issue itself. In the +20 years I've been keeping fish/coral I have never seen anything like this so I 1st want to understand what it might (or is) be.

The fin is nor eroded away, only the very top if the fin appears affected (see image 2). The fish is an active swimmer, swimming correct and very strong, is able to move the fin (with no suggestion of detachment, no listing to it's side, etc). The tank itself can be seen on my webpage; there are many SPS and soft corals (no anemones). My 1st thought was that maybe the fish scratched itself on an SPS. Tank mates are peaceful; the most aggressive is a Clown but he does not appear to be bothering anyone. Other fish are also quite peaceful; I say and watched the tank for a very long time last evening just to be sure all critters where playing well; and they where. The fish in question is eating like a pig (no loss of apetite).

In short, I have not found anything wrong with the fish except for the marks. Something else about the marks; they appeared overnight; it was fine at lights out 2 evenings ago and this appeared the next day; that is what lead me to feel it is a hard scratch or a fight (which I could find no evidence of; aka no fighting).

Tank critters, Hectors Goby, Clown, Snowflake Eel, Blue Tang, Coral Banded, Cleaner Shrimp, Fairy Wrasse, Dragonnet, 2 FireFish, 2 Spotted Cardinals, Marine Beta, Sailfin Tang. SPS, LPS, softies, Clam, Fire Scallop.

 

[JHemdal]

I wouldn't trust that snowflake long-term in that tank, even if it is tiny. I wouldn't put it past him to try and tag a wrasse at night.

That is a weird looking lesion. Any chance that it's just excess mucus, possibly as a reaction to getting stung by an LPS? Do you see ANY tissue damage or underlying inflammation?

I hardly ever end up treating for external bacterial infections, as you point out, the treatment methods often cause more harm than good. Besides, virtually every time I've had a lab run a culture, it always comes back as a ubiquitous species that is found in the aquarium anyway. It isn't like parasites that get into a tank and cause problems - these bacteria are always there, usually an injury opens up the fish to infection....most fish that recover do so IN SPITE of our antibacterial treatments, not because of them. Of course, people feel better if they can do something - thus the proliferation of "tonics", garlic, etc.

JHemdal

 

[Deleted member 143833]

The snowflake has been with us for 8 years and we keep it well fed. I've never seen him chase any of the fish and since the goby is still around I suspect he is OK (the Hectors Goby is about 1-1/2"; quite small) but I will keep an eye on him.

Your thought about this being a reaction to a sting or scratch is what I thought as well; I don't see any hemoraging or tissue damange; just this whitish 'stuff'. Since the fish is showing no signs of stress and remains active and still eats well I thought it may be something low risk (aka; looks worse than it really is).

I mostly wanted others to take a look and give suggestions; so that I felt better about what I thought it was. I've, in many years not lost a fish. Our last loss was an 8 year old Angel, which we wrote off as old age.

Anyway, thanks for you thoughts; I'll keep an eye on it and keep feeding; I feed home made, vitamin enriched food so that should help (I hope).

 

[kevin2000]

Picture is not clear enough to identify ... might be lymphocytis a disease akin to warts in humans. Normally not fatal unless it gets in the gills (which may apply in your case).

Do a google search .. there are some decent pics of fish with lympho on the web .. may help.

 

[Deleted member 143833]

I agree; that does appear to be what this is. You are also correct; it is in the one gill of the fish. The fish disease site indicates that there is no cure, other than good water quality, make sure the fish eats, food vitamins (kind of the equal to rest in bed and each chicken noodle soup).

Do you concur?

 

[kevin2000]

The std cure for lympho is as you described ... in severe cases where the fish can longer breath because the gills are severly infected manual removal (cutting off) of the lympho may be required (something that has obvious risks)

Hope this helps.

 

[JHemdal]

Kevin2000,

I had the impression from kenargo that the lesion was just "there" one day. If so, the sudden onset rules out Lymphocystis! Now, if he hasn't observed the fish closely for a week or two and THEN just saw this, you could consider Lmphocystis, otherwise, that ain't it.

JHemdal

 

[Deleted member 143833]

It is true that I did not notice this 1 day earlier and I did watch the tank. the prior day.

 

[JHemdal]

Well,

that rules out Lymphocystis. That disease is a virus that causes the epithelial cells of the fish to grow to gigantic sizes - so the progression of the disease is limited by how fast the skin cells can grow - so the disease takes weeks to grow.
That said, I still don't have any sort of definitive advice for you as to what the heck it is. In the three days since you posted the picture, has there been any change?

JHemdal

 

[Deleted member 143833]

Yes, there has been a change; this morning, I am sad to say I have lost my 1st fish in a very long time; he has passed away into the big blue sea above.

Thanks for all the help.....