BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Pretty much what I have been saying all along.... over 120 or so and you may want to consider support, 120 and below, with good placement, you should be fine (in most cases).
Bean
Bean
Jacks under floor...
- Thread starter suprzman
- Start date
Slickdonkey
New member
Hehe, yep!
Basically for me... peace of mind: $250. Being able to sleep at night without fear of waking up to 240 gallons of water in your living room.... priceless.
Dunno why nobody else is suggesting this, but if you really want to reinforce it can't you just sister in some new joists?
I.e, if your joists are 2X10X14 buy three just like em, run them from sill to I beam next to your existing joists and nail them to the existing joists. That doubles the strength of the joists. You would have to remove and replace the cross bracing to do it, but thats simple enough.
I.e, if your joists are 2X10X14 buy three just like em, run them from sill to I beam next to your existing joists and nail them to the existing joists. That doubles the strength of the joists. You would have to remove and replace the cross bracing to do it, but thats simple enough.
Bean -
My neighbor told me that in all likely hood, having a 120 gallon tank in my living room would not cause the floor to collapse. However, he said that over a long period of time, it is possible that the floor will sag. I didn't pay him for his advice, so he had no interest in what I did. Also remember that a waterbed weight is distributed in a much larger area than a fish tank.
Off the top of my head, I think it cost me less than $100 and 1 hour to reinforce my floor. For the piece of mind, it was worth it.
Kevin - I believe one of the option that my neighbor gave me was to sister the joists. But the way I did it was much easier - considering I only had 19" of space to work in.
Minh
BTW - there was an error in my diagram. In my picture, I showed that my tank ran perpendicular to the joist. It actually runs parallel to the joist - which would have made it sit on only two or three joists. That's the reason why my neighbor strongly recommended reinforcement. He told me that if it was perpendicular, he won't have worried about it. Once again - he's a structural engineer, so I trusted his judgement more than I trust mine. LOL
My neighbor told me that in all likely hood, having a 120 gallon tank in my living room would not cause the floor to collapse. However, he said that over a long period of time, it is possible that the floor will sag. I didn't pay him for his advice, so he had no interest in what I did. Also remember that a waterbed weight is distributed in a much larger area than a fish tank.
Off the top of my head, I think it cost me less than $100 and 1 hour to reinforce my floor. For the piece of mind, it was worth it.
Kevin - I believe one of the option that my neighbor gave me was to sister the joists. But the way I did it was much easier - considering I only had 19" of space to work in.
Minh
BTW - there was an error in my diagram. In my picture, I showed that my tank ran perpendicular to the joist. It actually runs parallel to the joist - which would have made it sit on only two or three joists. That's the reason why my neighbor strongly recommended reinforcement. He told me that if it was perpendicular, he won't have worried about it. Once again - he's a structural engineer, so I trusted his judgement more than I trust mine. LOL
Without looking at the exact situation it is still diffficult to say one way or another whether its a 120 or a 240 gallon you are working with. You place it against a non-load bearing wall you may be right in the middle of a 12 foot span of joists underneath - not a good thing. Yes the floor would most likely not collapse but the weight may exceed the L/360 or L/180 bending of the joists to cause drywall cracking on the ceiling below. Or it may lean slightly from one end to another over the 6 foot span. Even 1/4" causes additional stresses on the aquarium seams. I just doubled up on the 2/10's underneath- easy to do if you have access from below or in my case during the construction.
douggiestyle
New member
ok i need to put in my opinion.
we sell 1000lb stoves. the big commercial ones. the go on regular flooors old and new. and the weight is ditributed on 4 square inches. and on top of that we will sell an 800lb frig sitting right next to it also distributed over 4 square inches. these are made by ge, kitchenaid, viking, subzero, and etc. now bean will disaggree because he is convinced that there is an appliance manufacturers conspiracy, lol. but im am sure that with all the other 100 plus warnings they have in thier installation manuals. if weight was an issue to be considered in standard home installation, it would be, at the very least, mentioned. but it isnt.
we sell 1000lb stoves. the big commercial ones. the go on regular flooors old and new. and the weight is ditributed on 4 square inches. and on top of that we will sell an 800lb frig sitting right next to it also distributed over 4 square inches. these are made by ge, kitchenaid, viking, subzero, and etc. now bean will disaggree because he is convinced that there is an appliance manufacturers conspiracy, lol. but im am sure that with all the other 100 plus warnings they have in thier installation manuals. if weight was an issue to be considered in standard home installation, it would be, at the very least, mentioned. but it isnt.
douggiestyle
New member
i believe that is a matter of leveling your tank.
Slickdonkey
New member
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Now that you bring it up....
What about the UMRP is price fixing, which is a conspiracy by the appliance folks and retailers... but that's another story.
This thread is going in circles. The point to be had is the same point I made on the very first page. Modest sized tanks (in the 150 neighborhood or less) will not pose a problem if set across the floor joists and near a load bearing surface. They will not pose a problem in most houses on most floors. They likely would not pose a problem parallel to the joists in the middle of the span either. If you choose to take extra steps to sleep better or have a "bad feeling" about the proposed location, then that is up to you. This simply is not that big a deal in most cases.
Brian, honestly you keep sighting span tables and load factors, and they are utterly useless with regards to this conversation. They are a simple guidline to size joists for code purposes and really don't tell you much about the real world load or the way the floor will handle it. If I built my north facing deck (her ein pennsylvania) using the new BOCA span tables, it's support structures and framing members (you have to account for snow load, snow drifting and snow slides from the roof in addition to the proposed live and dead loads) would be more robust than that found on a commercial pier that handles truck traffic.
Or 80 gallon tub (old school pink cast iron) with me and the Mrs weighs in easily at 1500 LBs and has the same footprint of a 120 gallon tank. It has no added support or joists under it (I just finished our basement so I got a first hand view of all of our structural framing).
Want to really ponder something. My floor joists run parallel to the ridge of my house, which is NOT baloon framed.
Have a nice evening
What about the UMRP is price fixing, which is a conspiracy by the appliance folks and retailers... but that's another story.
This thread is going in circles. The point to be had is the same point I made on the very first page. Modest sized tanks (in the 150 neighborhood or less) will not pose a problem if set across the floor joists and near a load bearing surface. They will not pose a problem in most houses on most floors. They likely would not pose a problem parallel to the joists in the middle of the span either. If you choose to take extra steps to sleep better or have a "bad feeling" about the proposed location, then that is up to you. This simply is not that big a deal in most cases.
Brian, honestly you keep sighting span tables and load factors, and they are utterly useless with regards to this conversation. They are a simple guidline to size joists for code purposes and really don't tell you much about the real world load or the way the floor will handle it. If I built my north facing deck (her ein pennsylvania) using the new BOCA span tables, it's support structures and framing members (you have to account for snow load, snow drifting and snow slides from the roof in addition to the proposed live and dead loads) would be more robust than that found on a commercial pier that handles truck traffic.
Or 80 gallon tub (old school pink cast iron) with me and the Mrs weighs in easily at 1500 LBs and has the same footprint of a 120 gallon tank. It has no added support or joists under it (I just finished our basement so I got a first hand view of all of our structural framing).
Want to really ponder something. My floor joists run parallel to the ridge of my house, which is NOT baloon framed.
Have a nice evening
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
slick that is the article i refered to as well. It also mentions the bath tub, the two fat brothers jumping off the couch etc....
Im ready to move on.... can we get back to appliance manufacturers conspiracy?
Im ready to move on.... can we get back to appliance manufacturers conspiracy?
Slickdonkey
New member
Right Bean, I think I am done with this conversation... as I said before, people can do they want! Don't matter to me
douggiestyle
New member
well that wasnt my point. actually not even close.
but anyways i agree each situation can be different.
oh and umrp doesnt prevent people from selling at a lower or higher price. it only talks people out of selling at a lower price. there is no mandatory enforcement and no collusion.
personally i agree with you bean. we were part of a class action lawsuit against whirpool. but no laws were broken.
http://www.applianceadvisor.com/our stories/Pricefixingjuly2003.htm#applianceexecutive
On the flip side if you dont like the policy dont buy those products.
and also where is any law that says a purchaser is entiled to a better price because they where willing to shop around? you would be surprised how many people come in mad because they are unable to dicker over price. and the reason they are mad is because they always have done it. walk into lying about how so and so is selling it for cheaper. i mean if that guy is cheaper than me then go buy it there, why are you telling me about it.
the odd thing is. in coporate sales its illegal to say that some is selling it for a lower price, if you beat it i will buy from you instead. that is part of the anti-trust act
when saturn did it, it was considered a revelation.
oh and most umrp is only an 18% mark up (not margin).
i cant stop....
as retailers you are forced to purchase from only one distributer. and thier mark up is apx. 30%-50%. the retailer can not shop around. thereby he is unable to negotiate a better price. so the end consummer is again forced into paying a higher price.
Last edited:
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I see both sides of the story, and honestly feel that the UMRP is hurting the retailers and helping the distrubtion part of the chain.... but we can talk about that in a relavant thread.
I also feel as you do, "If you don't like my price and can get it cheaper, then by all means please do! I have set my prices where they are at for a reason."
Bean
I also feel as you do, "If you don't like my price and can get it cheaper, then by all means please do! I have set my prices where they are at for a reason."
Bean
Slickdonkey
New member
Well, parallel is not optimal, for sure... One of the themes of the thread is that everyone's situation is going to be different. Also, I think apartments are constructed differently than houses.
Basically I don't know the answer to your question. If it was me I'd be a little nervous about it, but to each his own...
Basically I don't know the answer to your question. If it was me I'd be a little nervous about it, but to each his own...
