Jacob's 360 Gallon Build
- Thread starter Jacob D
- Start date
Jacob D
New member
Today I got the OK from James at Envision Acrylics (builder of the tank) to drill an additional hole in the bottom of the tank, in the overflow compartment, so I can set up a Herbie style overflow. I might do that this week or I might wait a little while.
For those unfamiliar with the "Herbie", it's simply an overflow system where there are two stand pipes. One of them can be a typical Durso style (or open) stand pipe and the other is submerged beneath the water several inches and under full siphon. The ball valve is at the other end of it, or somewhere in the middle, and used to match the flow through the siphon tube to the flow coming from the pump. This allows maintaining the water level in the overflow box and doesn't cause a flushing effect. The other stand pipe is needed due to the fact that it's impossible to match the pump flow perfectly; it acts as the surplus flow route. So 98% of the flow is down the siphon tube and 2% is down the other. This leads to virtually no air in the sump and makes for an extremely quiet setup. It also provides a margin of safety in case one stand pipe becomes partially or completely blocked.
I did get a piece of 1" spa-flex and a ball valve and made a temporary version of the Herbie up and over the side of my tank. The 1" line is sufficient to handle all of the flow, I had to throttle the valve back quite a bit. There was a noticeable drop in water noise.
For those unfamiliar with the "Herbie", it's simply an overflow system where there are two stand pipes. One of them can be a typical Durso style (or open) stand pipe and the other is submerged beneath the water several inches and under full siphon. The ball valve is at the other end of it, or somewhere in the middle, and used to match the flow through the siphon tube to the flow coming from the pump. This allows maintaining the water level in the overflow box and doesn't cause a flushing effect. The other stand pipe is needed due to the fact that it's impossible to match the pump flow perfectly; it acts as the surplus flow route. So 98% of the flow is down the siphon tube and 2% is down the other. This leads to virtually no air in the sump and makes for an extremely quiet setup. It also provides a margin of safety in case one stand pipe becomes partially or completely blocked.
I did get a piece of 1" spa-flex and a ball valve and made a temporary version of the Herbie up and over the side of my tank. The 1" line is sufficient to handle all of the flow, I had to throttle the valve back quite a bit. There was a noticeable drop in water noise.
how the heck are you gonna get a drill back there now its in place and full of water? 
wait a min, 1" drain? what return pump, gph you got going again?
Originally I was going to do the herbie drain on my 40B using 1". I talked to a guy at glass-holes.com and now i'm leaning that way. very small overflow box so wont take up real estate and use the 700gph kit 'cause i'll probably use a quietone 2200 or 3000 for return (about 500gph after head loss)
Oh yea, dunno why I didnt post this earlier. real busy now I guess. RC hates this site so you'll have to cut/paste and remove spaces.
http://www.nano - reef .com/forums/index.php?showtopic=183745
link to a DIY AWC and
http://www.nano - reef .com/forums/index.php?showtopic=180805
link to a DIY controller in progress
Good reads and looks interesting. dunno what type of AWC you want to run or controller so thought i'd share
wait a min, 1" drain? what return pump, gph you got going again?
Originally I was going to do the herbie drain on my 40B using 1". I talked to a guy at glass-holes.com and now i'm leaning that way. very small overflow box so wont take up real estate and use the 700gph kit 'cause i'll probably use a quietone 2200 or 3000 for return (about 500gph after head loss)
Oh yea, dunno why I didnt post this earlier. real busy now I guess. RC hates this site so you'll have to cut/paste and remove spaces.
http://www.nano - reef .com/forums/index.php?showtopic=183745
link to a DIY AWC and
http://www.nano - reef .com/forums/index.php?showtopic=180805
link to a DIY controller in progress
Good reads and looks interesting. dunno what type of AWC you want to run or controller so thought i'd share
Jacob D
New member
The new hole will be in the bottom of the tank, I'll drill it from underneath.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14260493#post14260493 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Whacked
how the heck are you gonna get a drill back there now its in place and full of water?
Sequence Snapper. The 1" line will be the siphon tube, it easily handles the flow of the pump. There is a big difference in flow capacity of a line under full siphon vs. an open line.
Looks like he's put a lot of work into that AWC setup. Mine is similar in the way it will work although it won't require the PCB. All the logic is in the PLC and the other components will be mounted in the elect. panel. There is a brief write up on my blog in the functional description (documentation tag) although the design has changed because I ended up with a 3-way valve instead of two standard valves. I'll put together a quick writeup on my AWC...
once I get the chaos in my noodle somewhat organized, i'm gonna have some questions for ya Jake. Prolly send 'em email. gettting some conflicting info and need it straightened out.
If all goes well, 2 weeks i'll start ordering parts for my build. I did manage to cut a couple pieces of wood so far
If all goes well, 2 weeks i'll start ordering parts for my build. I did manage to cut a couple pieces of wood so far
Jacob D
New member
Here is a generic write-up on my AWC.
1. Check status of level sensor in sump for "normal water level". If sensor is not madel run top-off routine (to replace evaporated water) until sensor is made. Circulate for 3 minutes before going forward.
2. Power down return pump, wait 3 minutes to ensure all back-flow of water into sump is complete.
3. Shift divert valve to drain.
4. Power on return pump.
5. Monitor status of level sensor in sump "normal water level". When sensor is no longer made power down return pump. Wait for 30 secs to ensure all back-flow of water to sump is complete.
6. Shift divert valve back to standard position.
7. Power on return pump. (Now the water in the sump is running near it's minimum level).
8. Power on water change pump and pump saltwater into sump from pre-mixed reservoir. Monitor status of level sensor "normal water level", when sensor is made power done water change pump.
Done.
This essentially changes the volume of water that drains from my tank when the power goes out, which is roughly 10-12 gallons (and may vary a little each time due to siphoning etc...). This was a convenient way for me to do it since I have a single divert valve, which would have otherwise complicated the process. I think in the end doing it this way is actually easier than some other methods I've seen and I only need 1 level sensor to boot.
I don't care how much water I actually change as long as I know the ballpark (10-12 gallons) I can decide how often to run the routine each week (I'm thinking twice a week).
1. Check status of level sensor in sump for "normal water level". If sensor is not madel run top-off routine (to replace evaporated water) until sensor is made. Circulate for 3 minutes before going forward.
2. Power down return pump, wait 3 minutes to ensure all back-flow of water into sump is complete.
3. Shift divert valve to drain.
4. Power on return pump.
5. Monitor status of level sensor in sump "normal water level". When sensor is no longer made power down return pump. Wait for 30 secs to ensure all back-flow of water to sump is complete.
6. Shift divert valve back to standard position.
7. Power on return pump. (Now the water in the sump is running near it's minimum level).
8. Power on water change pump and pump saltwater into sump from pre-mixed reservoir. Monitor status of level sensor "normal water level", when sensor is made power done water change pump.
Done.
This essentially changes the volume of water that drains from my tank when the power goes out, which is roughly 10-12 gallons (and may vary a little each time due to siphoning etc...). This was a convenient way for me to do it since I have a single divert valve, which would have otherwise complicated the process. I think in the end doing it this way is actually easier than some other methods I've seen and I only need 1 level sensor to boot.
I don't care how much water I actually change as long as I know the ballpark (10-12 gallons) I can decide how often to run the routine each week (I'm thinking twice a week).
Jacob D
New member
Been awhile since I updated, not much progress lately. Getting ready to jump back on the canopy and get that wrapped up.
In the mean time I've been thinking about how much my tank actually costs in utilities since it's now running (minus lighting). I had put together a power consumption calculator once upon a time, however due to the PG&E tiered system it was never really accurate. After thinking about it some more it donned on me that the more energy we use in our house (for non-reef related stuff) the more the tank costs to run each month... an analysis was in order!
PG&E has various rate schedules, most of us are probably on an E-1. There are 5 tiers which includes the "baseline". In SJ County we are alloted 12.7 kilo-watt-hours (kwh) per day during the winter. Here are the tiers and their respective costs per kwh:
1) Baseline $.115
2) 101-130% $.131
3) 131-200% $.247
4) 201-300% $.305
5) 301% and above $.348
My tank is fairly energy friendly when compared to other tanks of its size; however it is still a big tank and will account for about 40% of our energy usage, or about 15.8 kwh per day... my tank alone exceeds my baseline allowance - ouch! In order to find out how much it actually costs I put together a new power consumption calculator that takes into consideration the tiered plans. First I plugged in our household power usage based on our last bill, 23.5 kwh per day spread across the tiers like so...
1) 12.7
2) 3.8
3) 7
next I plugged in the tank power usage, 15.8 kwh per day.
1) 12.7
2) 3.8
3) 8.9
4) 12.7
5) 1.2
Before I never broke out of the 200% bracket, with the tank figured in I'm hitting the 300%+ bracket. At these rates the tank costs $4.76 a day to run (electricity only). By lowering the household usage I can also lower the cost to run the tank, for example 15% reduction in household usage leads to a 5.5% reduction in cost to run the tank, $4.50 per day. It's not a huge difference, but it does add up. The total savings based on a 15% reduction in energy use is about $500 a year, that's $1500 back in my pocket in 3 years... nothing to complain about there. We're going to be looking for ways to cut back around the house and see what we can do.
If anyone is interested I'm going to post the calculator on my blog soon.
Footnote: If you use the most electricity in the evening or at night you may want to look into the E-6 and/or E-7 rate schedules which are based on time of use and have peak and off-peak rates. Running your tank at night also has quite a few merits when it comes to saving energy.
In the mean time I've been thinking about how much my tank actually costs in utilities since it's now running (minus lighting). I had put together a power consumption calculator once upon a time, however due to the PG&E tiered system it was never really accurate. After thinking about it some more it donned on me that the more energy we use in our house (for non-reef related stuff) the more the tank costs to run each month... an analysis was in order!
PG&E has various rate schedules, most of us are probably on an E-1. There are 5 tiers which includes the "baseline". In SJ County we are alloted 12.7 kilo-watt-hours (kwh) per day during the winter. Here are the tiers and their respective costs per kwh:
1) Baseline $.115
2) 101-130% $.131
3) 131-200% $.247
4) 201-300% $.305
5) 301% and above $.348
My tank is fairly energy friendly when compared to other tanks of its size; however it is still a big tank and will account for about 40% of our energy usage, or about 15.8 kwh per day... my tank alone exceeds my baseline allowance - ouch! In order to find out how much it actually costs I put together a new power consumption calculator that takes into consideration the tiered plans. First I plugged in our household power usage based on our last bill, 23.5 kwh per day spread across the tiers like so...
1) 12.7
2) 3.8
3) 7
next I plugged in the tank power usage, 15.8 kwh per day.
1) 12.7
2) 3.8
3) 8.9
4) 12.7
5) 1.2
Before I never broke out of the 200% bracket, with the tank figured in I'm hitting the 300%+ bracket. At these rates the tank costs $4.76 a day to run (electricity only). By lowering the household usage I can also lower the cost to run the tank, for example 15% reduction in household usage leads to a 5.5% reduction in cost to run the tank, $4.50 per day. It's not a huge difference, but it does add up. The total savings based on a 15% reduction in energy use is about $500 a year, that's $1500 back in my pocket in 3 years... nothing to complain about there. We're going to be looking for ways to cut back around the house and see what we can do.
If anyone is interested I'm going to post the calculator on my blog soon.
Footnote: If you use the most electricity in the evening or at night you may want to look into the E-6 and/or E-7 rate schedules which are based on time of use and have peak and off-peak rates. Running your tank at night also has quite a few merits when it comes to saving energy.
there are tons of ways to save on electricity.
I use the pigtail CF in my planted FW tank. so when those bulbs need replacing, I put them in lamps. I end up giving away the extras.
but with the enjoyment of the tanks, well worth the costs.
i'm guessimating my new 40b will be about $18.6/mo. not too bad
I use the pigtail CF in my planted FW tank. so when those bulbs need replacing, I put them in lamps. I end up giving away the extras.
but with the enjoyment of the tanks, well worth the costs.
i'm guessimating my new 40b will be about $18.6/mo. not too bad
Jacob D
New member
Yep, the kill-a-watt says computer is using 60-90 watts while sitting idle, so that's the first change. Someone told me that gadgets that are in 'standby' are energy wasters too. I'm going to check our TV, dvd player, etc...
We already switched out all our bulbs to CF a year or two ago, so nothing I can gain there besides using lights less.
What is the advantage to a front loading washer/dryer? Based on the ones my parents have I would never own them, but that's my only experience with them. Theirs vibrate like crazy.
plankton
Premium Member
Bosch Nexxt 500 front-loading washer only spins at 1100 rpm, 54db noise "Quietest washer in US" and " reduce energy consumption up to 20% per cycle"
http://www.boschappliances.com/product475.html
I own three Bosch appliances and love them. You can't even hear our dish washer operate. No sound at all. And no dryer element since it uses super hot water and stainless steel walls to wick away the water moisture.
Scott
http://www.boschappliances.com/product475.html
I own three Bosch appliances and love them. You can't even hear our dish washer operate. No sound at all. And no dryer element since it uses super hot water and stainless steel walls to wick away the water moisture.
Scott
ctripi
New member
The key feature of front end laundry machines is that they use much less water and spin dry at higher RPM's reducing drying time.
I am like'em based environmental aspects. But if the drum is not completely full, the machine will jump around a bit resulting in an occasional loud banging sound. Our is a GE model.
I am like'em based environmental aspects. But if the drum is not completely full, the machine will jump around a bit resulting in an occasional loud banging sound. Our is a GE model.
Jacob D
New member
Thanks Scott. Still chipping away at it of course. I'm hoping to pick up some more coral this week, for the Q tank of course. Speaking of that...
I just checked on my Q tank a few minutes ago... had a little algae bloom in there. Not sure exactly what type of algae it is yet, but it's on the glass everywhere.
It's a little strange because until now it has been very sterile... probably too sterile. Some of the corals I have in there were not doing great, but all of a sudden they all look very happy, even the heliopora has its polyps out. I have not added or changed anything for months that the tank has been running and I don't feed the tank. The last water change ended up with a little rain water in it... makes me wonder if it had anything to do with the algae.
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