JapanReef - 450 gallon In-Wall system
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Also, if anyone has teh time I need help in this thread.
Monthly Update. 
Nothing much changed in the DT except one the Tunzes stopped working. I'll get it out tomorrow and take a look. Had a scare this morning though. This is really weird, check it out.
So I was working away not really paying attention to the tank behind me. The halides came on at 10am and a few minutes later I saw a white fish swimming around. Well I don't have any white fish so I jumped up to go take a look and there was my poor Niger Trigger not looking much like a Niger Trigger at all. Instead of being a deep blue it was about 65% white. From its dorsal fin, most of its body in various patches and blotches - even over its face.
I've never seen anything like it. My son disappeared with teh camera or I would have taken a shot. I posted a thread in Disease forum as I was freaking out. I've seem a few disease up close including Brooklynella and out of them all it was most similar to that. I even saw a patch of skin flaking off like Brook can do. But the white patches looked different to Brook (which looks like white added to the color). What this looked like was a total loss of colour or pigmentation in patches covering two-thirds of its body. And if it was Brook why would it hit what is probably the most hardy fish in the tank? Also the fish wasn't breathing hard and if was Brook with that amount of covering it would be almost dead (if not dead).
I was prepared to try and get it out to hit it with some formalin but I had no idea how I was going to do that with no fish trap. So I put it out my mind, resigned myself to probably losing the fish and went back to work at the comp for a few hours. I then went up the bank and did some errands. Came back an hour later and I guess 4 hours had passed since I first noticed it. I peered into the tank to find the Trigger.....
It rose up from behind the Squamosa where it normally lives and it was no longer white. The coloration was starting to come back, the whiteness was fading into deep blue. I was very puzzled. I was already thinking of what else it could be and seeing the start of a recovery started to reinforce some thoughts I was having. What is the chance of a fish surviving an anenome attack? What are teh symptoms of an attack? Has anyone seen a fish survive or seen the results of an attack? If a fish was stung badly would it cause this discolouration? It's now 7 hours later and its colour has almost completely returned but it has battle scars. Two major ones that look like scars in a V shape with a couple of little ones next to it in the same direction - like LTA tentacles maybe? The skin I saw coming off is from one of the lines. Has scarring around the mouth and on the dorsal fin. It looks a bit worse for wear but they aren't super deep (not to redness). My fish don't fight and even then these are not bite marks and that wouldn't cause the discolouration I saw. So I'm thinking LTA or maybe a Hammer coral? Never heard of a Hammer coral attacking a fish but when I handled one when redoing the rockwork I got nasty stings on my hands resulting in layers of skin sloughing off.
So a bit mystified but relieved. I'm pretty sure it will pull through. Anyone had anything like this happen or heard of anything like this? Would love to know 100% what the cause was.
Nothing much changed in the DT except one the Tunzes stopped working. I'll get it out tomorrow and take a look. Had a scare this morning though. This is really weird, check it out.
So I was working away not really paying attention to the tank behind me. The halides came on at 10am and a few minutes later I saw a white fish swimming around. Well I don't have any white fish so I jumped up to go take a look and there was my poor Niger Trigger not looking much like a Niger Trigger at all. Instead of being a deep blue it was about 65% white. From its dorsal fin, most of its body in various patches and blotches - even over its face.
I've never seen anything like it. My son disappeared with teh camera or I would have taken a shot. I posted a thread in Disease forum as I was freaking out. I've seem a few disease up close including Brooklynella and out of them all it was most similar to that. I even saw a patch of skin flaking off like Brook can do. But the white patches looked different to Brook (which looks like white added to the color). What this looked like was a total loss of colour or pigmentation in patches covering two-thirds of its body. And if it was Brook why would it hit what is probably the most hardy fish in the tank? Also the fish wasn't breathing hard and if was Brook with that amount of covering it would be almost dead (if not dead).
I was prepared to try and get it out to hit it with some formalin but I had no idea how I was going to do that with no fish trap. So I put it out my mind, resigned myself to probably losing the fish and went back to work at the comp for a few hours. I then went up the bank and did some errands. Came back an hour later and I guess 4 hours had passed since I first noticed it. I peered into the tank to find the Trigger.....
It rose up from behind the Squamosa where it normally lives and it was no longer white. The coloration was starting to come back, the whiteness was fading into deep blue. I was very puzzled. I was already thinking of what else it could be and seeing the start of a recovery started to reinforce some thoughts I was having. What is the chance of a fish surviving an anenome attack? What are teh symptoms of an attack? Has anyone seen a fish survive or seen the results of an attack? If a fish was stung badly would it cause this discolouration? It's now 7 hours later and its colour has almost completely returned but it has battle scars. Two major ones that look like scars in a V shape with a couple of little ones next to it in the same direction - like LTA tentacles maybe? The skin I saw coming off is from one of the lines. Has scarring around the mouth and on the dorsal fin. It looks a bit worse for wear but they aren't super deep (not to redness). My fish don't fight and even then these are not bite marks and that wouldn't cause the discolouration I saw. So I'm thinking LTA or maybe a Hammer coral? Never heard of a Hammer coral attacking a fish but when I handled one when redoing the rockwork I got nasty stings on my hands resulting in layers of skin sloughing off.
So a bit mystified but relieved. I'm pretty sure it will pull through. Anyone had anything like this happen or heard of anything like this? Would love to know 100% what the cause was.
Bax
Premium Member
Wierd Laurence, sure sounds like a tangle with the nem is a distinct possibility. Don't triggers "sleep" in the rock work at night? Maybe in that state he driffted in to the nem? I just spent some time evaluating marks on my fox face only to determine that he probably ran into the rockwork and scared himself up. I have seen that happen during feeding when he pursues food in the current. He's not the brightest fish in the tank.
As for the Tunze, I went to a dilute muriatic bath as the vinigar, even straight, was not cleaning the pumps well enough to keep them running.
As for the Tunze, I went to a dilute muriatic bath as the vinigar, even straight, was not cleaning the pumps well enough to keep them running.
Pacific Reefs
New member
Maybe he darted into the anemone when the lights turned on and then darted right out with some damage. Sounds like he will recover soon. The tank is looking great! I can't believe how large that clam is....also loving the new fish!
jnarowe
New member
Many fish turn white or extremely faded due to mood and/or sleeping habits. It's quite common for a fish just waking up to be very faded or white looking. Some go camo like the foxface, but my ABT could turn almost entirely white when it got ticked off. Sometimes just the back 2/3. Since I have never kept a Niger, or any trigger for that matter, I cannot speak from experience, but I would guess that was a normal reaction to waking up up getting disturbed.
Could be. But definitely on ze mend now. 
In other news I'm nearing the end of this current QT cycle which is my 3rd of the year. IIRC the first one produced the Niger Trigger and replacement male Clarkii/Sebae Clownfish (Heni died in that one). Second one was the pair of Rabbitfish where the two Potters didn't make it. This time I have 2 Emperor Angels, BlueJaw Trigger and a Bird Wrasse. I think I let water quality drop one week and the Bird Wrasse got popeye pretty badly. I've been dosing Melafix two days on, one day off. It did appear to get better but last few days it's been hiding again. Fingers crossed.
The big Emperor doesn't really tolerate the younger one and is generally boisterous. But as they grow up together hopefully they will pair. The DT is big enough for them to avoid each other if need be. They are healthy and so is the trigger. I'm very happy to have 2 of these amazing fish. I was very attached to the Emperor that died in March last year. Had it from a juvi and it had fully changed. Hard lesson earned there.
Going to Australia end of month for a week. When I get back I think I'm going to try a lucky 7 Royal Grammas. Last attempt failed miserably due to poor water quality but my interest was waning at that time. It takes a lot of effort to clean a QT twice a week, do daily siphoning etc but it can be done if your heart is in it.
And then early next year it will be teh Regal Angel pair. Will third time be the charm? I think so.
Oh yea, 194,608 thread views.
In other news I'm nearing the end of this current QT cycle which is my 3rd of the year. IIRC the first one produced the Niger Trigger and replacement male Clarkii/Sebae Clownfish (Heni died in that one). Second one was the pair of Rabbitfish where the two Potters didn't make it. This time I have 2 Emperor Angels, BlueJaw Trigger and a Bird Wrasse. I think I let water quality drop one week and the Bird Wrasse got popeye pretty badly. I've been dosing Melafix two days on, one day off. It did appear to get better but last few days it's been hiding again. Fingers crossed.
The big Emperor doesn't really tolerate the younger one and is generally boisterous. But as they grow up together hopefully they will pair. The DT is big enough for them to avoid each other if need be. They are healthy and so is the trigger. I'm very happy to have 2 of these amazing fish. I was very attached to the Emperor that died in March last year. Had it from a juvi and it had fully changed. Hard lesson earned there.
Going to Australia end of month for a week. When I get back I think I'm going to try a lucky 7 Royal Grammas. Last attempt failed miserably due to poor water quality but my interest was waning at that time. It takes a lot of effort to clean a QT twice a week, do daily siphoning etc but it can be done if your heart is in it.
And then early next year it will be teh Regal Angel pair. Will third time be the charm? I think so.
Oh yea, 194,608 thread views.
A few questions on your QT tank as it sounds like you have this down pat. Say you buy two fish ( I know from your post that you do QT more than one fish at a time) you bring them home and put them in your QT tank, how long do they stay in your QT tank, I guess if at the end of their QT period that is when you put them in your DT. If the fish show no signs of being sick during their QT peroid why do you have to clean the QT twice a week and how much of a water change do you do daily? I am trying to learn something here, thanks for your time.
I do roughly 6 weeks QT sometimes a bit longer. Basically the sooner they get in the DT the better. Water quality is better.
I do 40 days hyposalinity and it has worked flawlessly for me. I've never had a parasite in the DT. I also dose Prazi now although I've never seen flukes or had an issue. Can't hurt to add another layer of preventative medicine.
The biggest killer in QT is water quality in my experience. This is because most quarantine tanks have a very weak biologocal filter. There's usually no (or not much LR) to provide denitrifaction so nitrates get super high, ammonia can spike, algae blooms etc. I have some LR in mine plus I have a few sponges in there that act the same way as LR but it will never be as good as a well setup display (wih fuge/denitrator/DSB/zillion pounds of LR). Therefore uneaten food and fish poo needs to be manually removed as often as possible. I try and clean twice a week which involves removing everything, scrubbing it down, scraping tank and doing a 50% water change. And then every day I'll siphon bad stuff out.
A few weeks ago I didn't siphon and after one week without a water change the bird wrasse had popeye. It eats a lot and so does the larger Emp so I'm generally feeding heavier than normal anyway so there's lots of excess food and fish crap that if it isn't removed, rots and fouls up the tank.
Fish that survive my QT are hard as nails and disease/parasite free. I only ever lost one fish due to disease in the DT and that was the adult Emperor last year that died of a swim bladder infection (probably due to water quality issues as I didn't change water for 3 months but even then, who knows). I've lost loads of fish in QT, I don't deny that. But it's better than feeling helpless as a parasite devours your precious tank. My success rate would be a lot better if I was more attentive to QT husbandary but who likes to spend 2 hours scrubbing tank, powerheads and rocks? Certainly not me, but it really has to be done. This year I have had a renewed energy for the tank so I'm riding that wave to get loads of new livestock in - hopefully without too many losses. As long as I get my Emp pair, pair of Regals, harem of Grammas and a clown tang everything else is a bonus. Failed on the regals and grammas in the past so I really want to get it done. After that I'll be focused on pairing smaller fish like a pair of Sixline Wrasses, Orchid Dottyback pair, Longnose Hawk pair. I love to see paired fish interact.
So lots of good stuff ahead. This hobby is awesome.
I do 40 days hyposalinity and it has worked flawlessly for me. I've never had a parasite in the DT. I also dose Prazi now although I've never seen flukes or had an issue. Can't hurt to add another layer of preventative medicine.
The biggest killer in QT is water quality in my experience. This is because most quarantine tanks have a very weak biologocal filter. There's usually no (or not much LR) to provide denitrifaction so nitrates get super high, ammonia can spike, algae blooms etc. I have some LR in mine plus I have a few sponges in there that act the same way as LR but it will never be as good as a well setup display (wih fuge/denitrator/DSB/zillion pounds of LR). Therefore uneaten food and fish poo needs to be manually removed as often as possible. I try and clean twice a week which involves removing everything, scrubbing it down, scraping tank and doing a 50% water change. And then every day I'll siphon bad stuff out.
A few weeks ago I didn't siphon and after one week without a water change the bird wrasse had popeye. It eats a lot and so does the larger Emp so I'm generally feeding heavier than normal anyway so there's lots of excess food and fish crap that if it isn't removed, rots and fouls up the tank.
Fish that survive my QT are hard as nails and disease/parasite free. I only ever lost one fish due to disease in the DT and that was the adult Emperor last year that died of a swim bladder infection (probably due to water quality issues as I didn't change water for 3 months but even then, who knows). I've lost loads of fish in QT, I don't deny that. But it's better than feeling helpless as a parasite devours your precious tank. My success rate would be a lot better if I was more attentive to QT husbandary but who likes to spend 2 hours scrubbing tank, powerheads and rocks? Certainly not me, but it really has to be done. This year I have had a renewed energy for the tank so I'm riding that wave to get loads of new livestock in - hopefully without too many losses. As long as I get my Emp pair, pair of Regals, harem of Grammas and a clown tang everything else is a bonus. Failed on the regals and grammas in the past so I really want to get it done. After that I'll be focused on pairing smaller fish like a pair of Sixline Wrasses, Orchid Dottyback pair, Longnose Hawk pair. I love to see paired fish interact.
So lots of good stuff ahead. This hobby is awesome.
What a great looking fish!
I just love my Blue Line Angel. Definitely the tank centerpiece.
melev
Well-known member
Laurence, if you can do a 10% water change every day, your water will stay very clean in the quarantine system. Years ago at MACNA XIV, the round table discussion was about quarantining and it was recommended you make a lot of water and have it near that tank. That way a water change is easy because it is always ready. Of course, they were talking about a 10g tank and changing 1g daily. I don't know how large yours is, but if you have a barrel of water that holds a week's worth, with a power head and heater to keep it perfectly matched, the water changes should be essentially painless and easy to perform. You might lose less livestock that way.
