iFisch
New member
And - what about the rest? How big are the 'nems? How often are you doing WC's? Which salt are you using?
JBJ 28 Gallon Nano Owners Club
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
And - what about the rest? How big are the 'nems? How often are you doing WC's? Which salt are you using?
balloonpilot
Premium Member
The nems were the 1st thing in the tank when we first set up in March, before we knew anything about water params... But inspite of this, it split after about 2.5 months.
They are about 3" across if they are fully expanded out.
They are about 3" across if they are fully expanded out.
iFisch
New member
ALL this is included in a water change. If you're not testing for it, I wouldn't be dosing it.
Things aren't going white due to a lack of K and Iodine. If you're doing WC's once a week, you're fine.
That's a good rule. Same applies for clams.
A LOT of people with larger tanks have been downgrading and moving everything into a smaller tank. It's becoming more of a viable option then selling everything off.
Don't worry about time. Nothing good comes from rushing anything. Reefs are not built overnight.
Lastly - are your 'nems moving at all in the tank? ie. moving around on rocks, the sand bed, etc.
balloonpilot
Premium Member
Oh I forgot.... The amino and potasium were said to bring out the pinks and blue/green of the acros - The one acro that is about 2" tall had lost about 1/2" of tissue, but the upper portion has managed to retain its nice blue/green color and has smaller polyps than when I first got it. WHen I 1st got it, it had bushy hairs now they are thin almost clear.
As for nems - they've stayed in same spot (attached under an overhang of live rock).
Clam is doing well - opens up nicely and responds to light (shadows cause close).
The Recordia is brighter and fuller when I use iodine.
So I should stop - Amino, Potassium, Trace, and Iodine ?
Im still not understanding how if my params are held to spec - why are SPS dying? Could an overdose of Amino, Potass, Trace and Iodine cause them to die?
Or is it that the tank is not mature enough (no coraline).
I thnk I shot myself in the foot on this one... While looking at tank this eve I noticed my Emerald Crab was died. Originally purchased to eat hair alge. but after he ate all that I guess he had nothing else to eat ( I read they also eat coraline so maybe thats why it wasnt growing very well). Not sure why he died other than lack of food ?
As for nems - they've stayed in same spot (attached under an overhang of live rock).
Clam is doing well - opens up nicely and responds to light (shadows cause close).
The Recordia is brighter and fuller when I use iodine.
So I should stop - Amino, Potassium, Trace, and Iodine ?
Im still not understanding how if my params are held to spec - why are SPS dying? Could an overdose of Amino, Potass, Trace and Iodine cause them to die?
Or is it that the tank is not mature enough (no coraline).
I thnk I shot myself in the foot on this one... While looking at tank this eve I noticed my Emerald Crab was died. Originally purchased to eat hair alge. but after he ate all that I guess he had nothing else to eat ( I read they also eat coraline so maybe thats why it wasnt growing very well). Not sure why he died other than lack of food ?
balloonpilot
Premium Member
nano -
Sorry to hear that... I just wish there was an easy answer. After spending several hundred on various SPSs - I'm putting things on hold until I figure out whats up (and until Coraline grows).
Sorry to hear that... I just wish there was an easy answer. After spending several hundred on various SPSs - I'm putting things on hold until I figure out whats up (and until Coraline grows).
iFisch
New member
Yep. It's sounds like it could be a water chemistry problem. Or the 'nems are stinging your corals, which is also possible. It's not just the coraline, it's the maturity of the tank as well. You also need extremely stable water quality.
I'm fortunate - people are willing to donate common SPS - so I can test if my water's ready for SPS at no cost to me.
balloonpilot
Premium Member
iFisch -
I make my own RO/DI (using 4 filter system) and with the weekly water changes, daily/hrly dosing I think my numbers are "stable". Is there someting that Ive missed? I'd agree its gotta be water chemistry - but what did I miss?
As for the nems - they are opposite sides of tank from SPS.
I was at LFS today and owner told me about Red Sea Coral Pro salt - said it was "better" than the Seachem Reef Salt... True?
I make my own RO/DI (using 4 filter system) and with the weekly water changes, daily/hrly dosing I think my numbers are "stable". Is there someting that Ive missed? I'd agree its gotta be water chemistry - but what did I miss?
As for the nems - they are opposite sides of tank from SPS.
I was at LFS today and owner told me about Red Sea Coral Pro salt - said it was "better" than the Seachem Reef Salt... True?
iFisch
New member
I still don't know why your dosing if your not testing. This is where the problem could be.
The 'nems will get bigger over time, and will need to be removed, or moved to another tank. It's a good idea to get sell them now, IMO.
I like RS salt. There is no "better" salt, really. They're all just different, each has their pro's and con's. I think RS is better than Seachem.
I wouldn't add any coral for 1 month. Let things stabilize. I wouldn't add any SPS for "months" I don't know how old your tank is, but if you have little or no coraline - your tank might not be very old. Clams - even longer. Remember time is the best thing. Don't rush things, just because you see something nice. If your tank isn't ready, it won't be "nice" for very long - as you've noticed and experienced first hand.
balloonpilot
Premium Member
iFisch -
I first set up tank in April this year, but didnt know anything about chemistry and things were not right for a couple months.
I would say the tank has been stable (number wise) since August - so call it 2.5 months 'mature'...
I hear what your saying - about the amino/potassium/trace/iodine - I'm not testing so why dose. But Im afraid I dont know enough to understand why this would be killing SPSs if does in small amounts.
Think I'll try Red Sea salt but I've got about 10gal worth of Seachem left.
I first set up tank in April this year, but didnt know anything about chemistry and things were not right for a couple months.
I would say the tank has been stable (number wise) since August - so call it 2.5 months 'mature'...
I hear what your saying - about the amino/potassium/trace/iodine - I'm not testing so why dose. But Im afraid I dont know enough to understand why this would be killing SPSs if does in small amounts.
Think I'll try Red Sea salt but I've got about 10gal worth of Seachem left.
iFisch
New member
I also setup my 14g in April. I have previous experience, but that was nearly 6 years ago. I bought my first 29g FOWLR when I was 16. I knew quite a bit back then, but also 6 years ago, things change, and companies emerged that were not around 6 years ago.
Well, if your dosing that stuff, is such small quantities (which you would also get from doing weekly/bi-weekly WC's), why dose at all? I am really curious, if you've been dosing this stuff daily, what your levels are at right now. Corals only consume very small amounts, and unless you are overstocked with corals, there is hardly anyone who doses those. A tiny shot of Iodine helps shrimp and lobsters molt, which is the only reason I have a small bottle. I do it once a month, to help my shrimp molt. I don't do it for any other reason.
Just stop dosing it, until you get a test kit, and find out the proper levels. I don't know the proper levels, because with frequent WC's, there is enough Iodine and K being reintroduced that the only thing that is truly necessary for nano's may be Ca, sometimes Alk and very, very rarely Mg. Unless you have a fully stocked SPS/clam tank, which is an exception.
Here, knock yourself out.
Iodine:
http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/can-you-overdose-iodide-60714.html
http://www.reefaquariumguide.com/forum/aquarium-emergency/94804-iodine-overdose.html
K:
http://www.*********.com/forums/f48/potassium-sps-corals-24622.html
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/reef-chemistry-forum/27507-anyone-dosing-potassium-iodide.html
I think, you need to invest in a few books (yes, books), ask questions here, and use google extensively before you start adding things. I mean fish, corals, inverts, additives, etc. etc. Use Amazon to purchase books. They're expensive, but worth every penny. This is not a "personal" 'attack', I am simply stating that "I" believe you should attain a bit more knowledge before you start spending again. If you find something locally you want to buy (fish, inverts, coral, etc.) google it first, sometimes certain fish, corals or inverts require a certain "item" or sometimes some fish are very hard to get to eat "prepared" foods, etc. then go back and buy it. LFS's - for the most part - or most of them, are in business to make money. They will often tell you "white" lies to sell a product. Or tell you it helps, but doesn't tell you why, what it can do to your tank and chemistry, etc. etc.
Good luck.
iFisch
New member
Another quick question:
Can someone measure just the glass dimensions? NOT doing a full measurement, including the sump area. Just the glass LxWxH.
I know dimensions are 18x20x20 TOTAL, but the swimming area is what I'm questioning. It should be like 18x14x15 or something, I'm just guessing..
Can someone measure just the glass dimensions? NOT doing a full measurement, including the sump area. Just the glass LxWxH.
I know dimensions are 18x20x20 TOTAL, but the swimming area is what I'm questioning. It should be like 18x14x15 or something, I'm just guessing..
sahin
Ultimate Reefer
iFisch: Tank dimensions, excluding the rear "SUMP" area =
Height: 16 inches
Length: 17.5 inches
Depth: 16 inches
Note that for depth I did not include the curved part of the tank which adds 1.5 inches. I just measured from the rear part black wall to the corner of the curved glass.
That makes it roughly 17.5G for the display area.
Height: 16 inches
Length: 17.5 inches
Depth: 16 inches
Note that for depth I did not include the curved part of the tank which adds 1.5 inches. I just measured from the rear part black wall to the corner of the curved glass.
That makes it roughly 17.5G for the display area.
balloonpilot
Premium Member
iFisch -
First off - no personal attack taken. and funny you mention books - I just got 4 covering water chem, coral/fish selection --- Wished I had gotten the books and found this forum before ever buying a tank. So an expensive learning curve but hopefully not as much loss as I progress
As for iodine, this is what I'm using: http://www.marinedepot.com/Kent_Mar...Supplements-Kent_Marine-KM3351-FIADII-vi.html
It claims to be time released and as such claims no testing needed as long as one 'uses as directed'. But being time release and the way iodine changes form(s) I could be impossible to test for actual levels. But I checeked out the above links (thanks) and most seem to agree w/ WC taking care of keeping this level at spec. Although they say its toxic there also seems to be no magical number for how much is too little or too much. I will say this - When I dose, even small amounts of Tech-I my Recordia fills out bigger and more colorful. However (as one person stated in those links) too much iodine can kill zoanthids (one of my zoa colony's died - I was told it was because the spagetti worms were touching it and causing it to keep its polyps closed. The other one about the size of a fist just closed all polyps and never reopned.
I know some folks dip new corals in iodine - but I think thats a different type than the Tech-I (which Im using).
THis is the potassium I've been using: http://www.marinedepot.com/Brightwe...-Brightwell_Aquatics-BW01223-FIADSACS-vi.html
This version of potassium is basically Potassium sulfate, Potassium chloride (not potassium with a form a iodine) and I must say that the blue/green acro that had lost its color and started to lose tissue fromthe bottom up has stopped losing tissue and the colors are very bright - it was the LFS that suggested using the above potassium suplement.
The amino was said to help the pink birds nest retain its color - however, thats mostly white now.
Thanks again for all the info (and more). Im off to read some books.
If you canthink of anything else - I'm all ears.
First off - no personal attack taken. and funny you mention books - I just got 4 covering water chem, coral/fish selection --- Wished I had gotten the books and found this forum before ever buying a tank. So an expensive learning curve but hopefully not as much loss as I progress
As for iodine, this is what I'm using: http://www.marinedepot.com/Kent_Mar...Supplements-Kent_Marine-KM3351-FIADII-vi.html
It claims to be time released and as such claims no testing needed as long as one 'uses as directed'. But being time release and the way iodine changes form(s) I could be impossible to test for actual levels. But I checeked out the above links (thanks) and most seem to agree w/ WC taking care of keeping this level at spec. Although they say its toxic there also seems to be no magical number for how much is too little or too much. I will say this - When I dose, even small amounts of Tech-I my Recordia fills out bigger and more colorful. However (as one person stated in those links) too much iodine can kill zoanthids (one of my zoa colony's died - I was told it was because the spagetti worms were touching it and causing it to keep its polyps closed. The other one about the size of a fist just closed all polyps and never reopned.
I know some folks dip new corals in iodine - but I think thats a different type than the Tech-I (which Im using).
THis is the potassium I've been using: http://www.marinedepot.com/Brightwe...-Brightwell_Aquatics-BW01223-FIADSACS-vi.html
This version of potassium is basically Potassium sulfate, Potassium chloride (not potassium with a form a iodine) and I must say that the blue/green acro that had lost its color and started to lose tissue fromthe bottom up has stopped losing tissue and the colors are very bright - it was the LFS that suggested using the above potassium suplement.
The amino was said to help the pink birds nest retain its color - however, thats mostly white now.
Thanks again for all the info (and more). Im off to read some books.
If you canthink of anything else - I'm all ears.
sahin
Ultimate Reefer
Balloonpilot: I am pleased that you have bought the books and researching properly. I am very surprised that you bought a full blown reef tank and set it up so quickly with only a few months knowledge of saltwater. :fun2:
(At least thats my understanding of your saltwater venture).
If I am wrong, then please correct me.
But, anyway, the deal has been done, and so we must move on. Hopefully with the knowledge you gain now or are gaining currently, you can sort out your SPS coral problem.
Ifisch: why did you want to know the tank dimensions? What are you planning?
(At least thats my understanding of your saltwater venture).
If I am wrong, then please correct me.
But, anyway, the deal has been done, and so we must move on. Hopefully with the knowledge you gain now or are gaining currently, you can sort out your SPS coral problem.
Ifisch: why did you want to know the tank dimensions? What are you planning?
iFisch
New member
iFisch
New member
Found a 12g tank 19x12x12 (11.8g), which I was going to plumb to a 5g sump to house my skimmer, cheato, and return pump (in which I could get a bigger return pump, and not have power heads scattered in my tank.)
Which actually is nearly twice 1/3 bigger, the size of my 14g minus the "sump" area. My 14g is 15x11x13 (9.2g). But then I would just have it drilled, and house everything in the sump, giving me a total water volume of about 18g.
Which would mean nearly 4g more of actual swimming space (in a nano, that's somewhat significant) + I gain clutter free tank + rimless and low-iron tank. Which are two aesthetically pleasing bonuses. Plus it won't cost me but $150 or so, which means I can setup a seconding EXACT setup for $100 more than buying 1 - 28g JBJ, and either breed clowns - do a specialty tank, like seahorses, pipefish, jawfish, etc.
Not sure what exactly I want to do, quite yet. But I want it done at/close to X-Mas, so I have to get working on acquiring the pieces, if I go the other route (non 28g cube). I'll be thinking about it over the next few days.
Sci_Man SF
New member
Ballonpilot-
I have used Instant Ocean Reef Crystals for years with success. They had a bit of a problem with Ca++ levels a while back but I have been getting steady readings from it for past year or so.
Have you ever tested your water for copper or ever used an ich treatment?
Also, do you have any leather corals? In a small tank they can release chemicals that can kill off SPS.
You might want to run activated carbon in you r tank for a while to remove any possible contaminants. If you are using RO/DI then you should be adding anything back (assuming that your unit is working correctly). Again, I think you might want to test for copper just to rule it out.
I dont dose anything other then kalk in top off and 2-part once or twice a week. I add Mg++ every few months as part of the 2-part kit.
Pink birdnest just need a lot of light to stay pink. Keep it high up in the tank. I really didn't start introducing SPS until my tank was running for over a year. Then you know that every thing is stable.
SlvrSurfRidr
aka: coraltopia
ditto
balloonpilot
Premium Member
Sci_Man
I've never used any Coppper based treatments, but I had never tested for coper either. So got a copy test kit (from Red Sea) and it tested Zero... Good, eliminated one more ting.
No Lether Corals.
Pink Birdsnest sites the highest in the tank (about 3-4" from surface. Its totally white now and has started to become covered with "red stuff" and the crabs are crawling on it. Probably should take it out.
I think what I'm hearing is that even with numbers spot-on - the tank needs to stay that way for nearly a year before adding SPS... So I'll wait.
Thanks
I've never used any Coppper based treatments, but I had never tested for coper either. So got a copy test kit (from Red Sea) and it tested Zero... Good, eliminated one more ting.
No Lether Corals.
Pink Birdsnest sites the highest in the tank (about 3-4" from surface. Its totally white now and has started to become covered with "red stuff" and the crabs are crawling on it. Probably should take it out.
I think what I'm hearing is that even with numbers spot-on - the tank needs to stay that way for nearly a year before adding SPS... So I'll wait.
Thanks
