Join me for a strange one...
- Thread starter kcress
- Start date
JasonBJones
New member
Thanks guys. It's a shame in person it doesn't look like a 70g, although I will say that it does look larger than 20g because you have so much rock to look at compared to a normally aquascaped 20g.
You are correct, it is very heavy, which could be a problem with your much larger panels. I would estimate the back wall alone weighs 10-15lbs. The larger cross section does give it a lot of strength, I have never worried about that thing breaking. I made the side wall thinner and I have had it break multiple times.
Here is a summary of my process I wrote up for someone:
I made a mold of the area I had to cover out of cardboard. For the mold, I made the base to the right dimensions and then put 3-4" walls all the way around. I then put a thin, maybe 1/2" to 3/4", rock mix layer down as a base. I then placed 2 or 3 small rocks throughout the wall where I wanted them. I made sure to place more concrete mix around those to ensure they would stay in place, I actually would pack that in a little bit to make sure it would hold. The rest of the wall I just dribbled in around the wall trying to ensure I did it randomly so it didn't look overly contrived. I used a couple of toilet paper rolls to make tunnels throughout the wall. I would twist or crumple the rolls so it wouldnt look fake and be perfectly round. I also used some small plastic tubes to make tunnels. Once I had everything in place I used some zip tie to just stick in and poke holes in the rock to make it look more natural. I don't remember how long it was before I removed the toilet paper rolls, I think it was the next day
To make the second piece, I let that one dry for a day or two before I built the other wall (I would try to wait at least 4 days to let it harden). I made a mold for the second piece and placed the side of the walls where they would touch against the wall I had already made so that I could try to get them to somewhat match. I then placed a couple of paper towels over the old wall to ensure I could separate them. I then did the same thing to build the second wall.
You are correct, it is very heavy, which could be a problem with your much larger panels. I would estimate the back wall alone weighs 10-15lbs. The larger cross section does give it a lot of strength, I have never worried about that thing breaking. I made the side wall thinner and I have had it break multiple times.
Here is a summary of my process I wrote up for someone:
I made a mold of the area I had to cover out of cardboard. For the mold, I made the base to the right dimensions and then put 3-4" walls all the way around. I then put a thin, maybe 1/2" to 3/4", rock mix layer down as a base. I then placed 2 or 3 small rocks throughout the wall where I wanted them. I made sure to place more concrete mix around those to ensure they would stay in place, I actually would pack that in a little bit to make sure it would hold. The rest of the wall I just dribbled in around the wall trying to ensure I did it randomly so it didn't look overly contrived. I used a couple of toilet paper rolls to make tunnels throughout the wall. I would twist or crumple the rolls so it wouldnt look fake and be perfectly round. I also used some small plastic tubes to make tunnels. Once I had everything in place I used some zip tie to just stick in and poke holes in the rock to make it look more natural. I don't remember how long it was before I removed the toilet paper rolls, I think it was the next day
To make the second piece, I let that one dry for a day or two before I built the other wall (I would try to wait at least 4 days to let it harden). I made a mold for the second piece and placed the side of the walls where they would touch against the wall I had already made so that I could try to get them to somewhat match. I then placed a couple of paper towels over the old wall to ensure I could separate them. I then did the same thing to build the second wall.
kcress
New member
Thanks very much for those details Jason. I was worried about the weight. I guess I'll proceed with ceramic as I think it will be much lighter.
XSiVE; I've got that covered. I'll be mixing into the clay, corn and other seeds. When fired they all leave as vapor. The completely entrained ones convert to a few percent ash trapped in the previous volume. I should be able to make it look reallllllly porous. I can also press extra into the faces anywhere I need to.
XSiVE; I've got that covered. I'll be mixing into the clay, corn and other seeds. When fired they all leave as vapor. The completely entrained ones convert to a few percent ash trapped in the previous volume. I should be able to make it look reallllllly porous. I can also press extra into the faces anywhere I need to.
Tonblogna
Member
I was supposed to hit the sack early tonight when RiffRaff posted a link to this thread in our local forum. It's freekin insane. I couldn't got to bed without getting through it. I salute your ingenuity and marvel in your determination. Personally I might have just bolted a piece of plywood to a floorjack and raised myself up. 
Well done.
Well done.
kcress
New member
So. You may think I've been slack'n but I haven't been. I've been working like a little beaver - no like a god! I've been creating never before seen lifeforms. Dozens! mMWAHAHAhahaaa..
I started with doing the rear face to the right of the overflow area. That's an area that's 59-1/2" long and 34-1/2" tall. To fit everything into the available kiln I was restricted to 12" by 22". This means I have to build everything in tiles that size. So I roll out the clay and cut it with a template I've made. Those go onto the table on butcher paper so they can shrink the 6% they will as they dry - without cracking.
I then create the major shapes. After some drying I put texture into the interstitial spaces. The texture is a bitc(&^^#& to make because I need a lot that's very stiff and not runny. It's easy to make it runny with a drill and lots of water (called slip) but it's hard to just make it really stiff and gooey so it holds its shape.
To add porosity and interest I've mixed in cracked corn to the texture - lots and lots of cracked corn. When fired it will vaporize and leave craters everywhere. The completely enclosed corn will leave a microscopic amount of ash inside an internal bubble.
This clay will only be bisque fired which means it will not have a second firing with glaze on it. Thus the clay will not hold water. Water will be free to flow thru it slowly. Voila! Live rock.
Try to keep in mind the scale of these. They are almost 2 feet wide and are a foot tall.
Today we were shocked when we pulled the plastic off. All the texture had one inch of greenish white fungus growing out of it. Everything was very fuzzy. This fungus is being fed by the released sugars from the cracked corn. Amazing really. It will add some more texture. LOL
It will, of course, be nuked in the +2,000F kiln. This ceramic will be completely sterile when it comes out. It was just a bit shocking.
Notice the left pieces have right angle corners. These are to butt up against the overflow box.
This is nine of the tiles. I will still need five more to cover the overflow and half of the left side of the tank. I will be leaving the right side un-furnished.
I'll also have to build the furniture for hiding the two standpipes. All told I guess I'm about half way done with the layup. I still have to fire this stuff and lay up and fire the rest.
Firing clay that isn't 100% dry causes major explosions that look like a grenade went off in the kiln. It destroys most of the stuff, shelves, and can badly damage a kiln too. So once we think it's completely dry I'm going to load it in the kiln and run a Cal rod heater controlled with a temp controller. I'll run it for 2 days at 185F so we're absolutely sure the sculptures are all completely dry.
Closeup:
I started with doing the rear face to the right of the overflow area. That's an area that's 59-1/2" long and 34-1/2" tall. To fit everything into the available kiln I was restricted to 12" by 22". This means I have to build everything in tiles that size. So I roll out the clay and cut it with a template I've made. Those go onto the table on butcher paper so they can shrink the 6% they will as they dry - without cracking.
I then create the major shapes. After some drying I put texture into the interstitial spaces. The texture is a bitc(&^^#& to make because I need a lot that's very stiff and not runny. It's easy to make it runny with a drill and lots of water (called slip) but it's hard to just make it really stiff and gooey so it holds its shape.
To add porosity and interest I've mixed in cracked corn to the texture - lots and lots of cracked corn. When fired it will vaporize and leave craters everywhere. The completely enclosed corn will leave a microscopic amount of ash inside an internal bubble.
This clay will only be bisque fired which means it will not have a second firing with glaze on it. Thus the clay will not hold water. Water will be free to flow thru it slowly. Voila! Live rock.
Try to keep in mind the scale of these. They are almost 2 feet wide and are a foot tall.
Today we were shocked when we pulled the plastic off. All the texture had one inch of greenish white fungus growing out of it. Everything was very fuzzy. This fungus is being fed by the released sugars from the cracked corn. Amazing really. It will add some more texture. LOL
It will, of course, be nuked in the +2,000F kiln. This ceramic will be completely sterile when it comes out. It was just a bit shocking.
Notice the left pieces have right angle corners. These are to butt up against the overflow box.
This is nine of the tiles. I will still need five more to cover the overflow and half of the left side of the tank. I will be leaving the right side un-furnished.
I'll also have to build the furniture for hiding the two standpipes. All told I guess I'm about half way done with the layup. I still have to fire this stuff and lay up and fire the rest.
Firing clay that isn't 100% dry causes major explosions that look like a grenade went off in the kiln. It destroys most of the stuff, shelves, and can badly damage a kiln too. So once we think it's completely dry I'm going to load it in the kiln and run a Cal rod heater controlled with a temp controller. I'll run it for 2 days at 185F so we're absolutely sure the sculptures are all completely dry.
Closeup:
serpentman
part time superhero
Very cool. I really think this should turn out well.
I'm not sure if you've seen this one. Here's a similar background that's almost pretty enough to forgo the actual reef.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1827226&page=10
I'm not sure if you've seen this one. Here's a similar background that's almost pretty enough to forgo the actual reef.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1827226&page=10
Taqpol
New member
Wait, are those actual kitchen sponges in there?? Well, I'm sure that will get you the sponge texture you might have been looking for, but will they survive the heat?
Everyones Hero
New member
Very cool. Once that starts getting covered in coraline algae it'll look incredible.
Are you going to put more rock in the center of the tank or is the clay going to be all of the rock in the system?
Are you going to put more rock in the center of the tank or is the clay going to be all of the rock in the system?
onebadbug
New member
After reading through you're build?
<center>...WOW...</center>
For $1000 Mr. Trubeck...
"Things that happen from watching too many James Bond movies"
:lmao:
That automated stand is just pure genius.
kcress
New member
No I hadn't seen that one Serp. It's nice. The shelves are a little overbearing but of course they're for coral and will be hidden eventually.
That method would be completely impossible with this particular tank. It''s not big enough to work inside and it's too deep to reach into. I'm seeing a lot of concrete-in desings lately. They're nice.
The story behind the sponges is that I built that large folded structure and let it dry for 5 days. It was quite rigid. Then we put some very wet texture on it. Looked great! About 20 minutes later it started to collapse as it drew water from the texture. We had to spend 20 minutes shoring it up and heating it with a blow torch to stiffen it back up. The sponges are a form of diffuse support. If they are easy to remove we will remove them. If they aren't we'll just leave them there. No trace will remain after firing.
There will be more ceramic structures on the floor here and there. Did that answer your question?.
:thumbsup: Thanks bug!
Everyones Hero
New member
There will be more ceramic structures on the floor here and there. Did that answer your question?.
Yes it did. I just wasn't sure if you were going to leave the rest of the tank open or not.
I really like that & it gives me plans for a future tank.
streak
Reef Madness!
When all that clay is fired how much water will it be able to absorbe? will it have good porisity? like above 30-40%?? Another quick question is when the alage covers it completly later will that go down by alot or will it just make it better by having alot more anoxic zones deeper in the ceramic? Just trying to judge pores on a rock to ceramic i mean fired ceramic is thats not glazed should run water plum threw it...
kcress
New member
streak; I don't know for sure. About a quarter of the clay is that cracked corn porous stuff which will add to surface area fairly significantly. As for how easy the water will circulate thru it - I don't know. I know that conventional unglazed pots you put water in will leak fairly badly. I'll run a test or two once I have them fired and put up the results.
Just checking in to see the progress. Looking great!!
dainiusiva
New member
Lately I haven't visited your thread, but now that I have, I must say that's incredible. I really like what i'm seeing!
Can this technique be applied when making artificial rock? Or is it better to use "traditional" aragocrete way?
Once again, hats off to you, you are really creative and gifted person Kcress.
Can this technique be applied when making artificial rock? Or is it better to use "traditional" aragocrete way?
Once again, hats off to you, you are really creative and gifted person Kcress.
kcress
New member
You-and-me-both.
Sorry Dave. I've been checking those drying tiles every few days. Firing is getting closer. I have no more space to put the remaining ones and I can't clog my good friend's shop any further during this Christmas season run-up. A lot of the speed of drying is a function of the weather. We've had a week of pretty cold weather. The last three days have been very warm so hopefully...
Also my present setup which is three 55s chained together with jumps has a problem. The right most tank sprung a leak last night. I guess 15 years is about the lifetime of these buggers. This meant I had to spend the day shifting everything into the two remaining tanks. It dawned on me that having multiple tanks like this can be a life saver. If one tank starts leaking or fails in some way, the others are up and running hot spares.
Thanks so much dainiusiva.
Yes, certainly you can use ceramics for live rock. All you need is a lot of surface area. The rock doesn't have to be flow thru but it's nice if it is.
Neither way is 'better'. They both have trade offs. Both are better in different ways.
Ceramic needs no curing but aragocrete definitely does.
Ceramic requires that you have kiln access.
Ceramic allows you to make any shape you can conceive of, but you are limited with crete. (see my limpets?)
Crete is probably less expense to use.
Crete will always be more porous which is probably good.
Crete is much more fragile than ceramic.
I'll be checking the tiles out again tomorrow.:thumbsup:
